Racial profiling to be legalized!

JP said:
Yes I have been through Southeast and yes I heard about the mass shooting. What does that have to do with anything exactly?
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There were at least 3 black males in that green sedan that shot into the crowd. The car doesn't have to be a cadillac.
 
Duddits said:
There were at least 3 black males in that green sedan that shot into the crowd. The car doesn't have to be a cadillac.
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Okay, so you are saying that 2+ black men in a car of any kind makes you suspicious? That's called racism. Just because it's happen before doesn't mean you supposed to get suspicious of all instances were their are multiple black men in a car. That's the same as a police officer pulling over a black man because he's black and looks "suspicious". Now if they are waving guns out the window or doing something that actually makes them look suspicious, then that's fine.
 
I'd just like to add that I think the folks who have been saying that "if the federal Government were doing its job properly, no state would be adopting laws like this" has a very valid point. I think it's a pretty sad state of affairs when even Mexico shows more vigilance and follow-through dealing with their illegals than we do . . .

Hell. so does France, for that matter . . . France!
 
Halifirien said:
It's not a magical process to look at how similar laws have been used in the past to work out how it'll go down this time. There were plenty of laws on the books designed to harass southern blacks, all perfectly legal, but of course the defense was they applied to whites as well *wink*wink*nudge*nudge*. Just like sodomy laws were selectively enforced against gay men, but nobody cared if a dude was getting blown by a woman because they weren't "sexual deviants." Arizona has made it clear they want to stop illegal immigration and they're using racial profiling to do it by telling cops to ask U.S. citizens with brown skin to prove their citizenship even when they're not being accused of a crime.

Meanwhile, the Arizona legislature is trying to ban ethnic studies programs and their education department is targeting teachers with heavy accents. Sure, it's all about border security.

"If you're doing no wrong, you have nothing to fear" is horseshit. We have plenty of people in prison who did nothing wrong except for be poor and unable to afford a crack legal team.
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See, I can't help in my head but to thank, "uh huh, yeah, buck up and get real." I don't subscribe to that hug a tree, save the earth, everyone matter bullshit. We're to lax on immigration in this nation, the solutions wont be liked and they wont start out perfect, get the fuck over it. When you're illegally in Mexico, just fuckin' try and ask the Federally to take his gun out of your face for a second while your on your way to some shit hole cell where your livelihood is sure to be the number one thing on their agenda.

It's true, a very, very few people get prosecuted for things they didn't do (we're talkin' major crimes here). Even less of them are actually entirely innocent, guilty by association is guilty, make better choices. However, to say that this same fear is legitimate for a test of citizenship is, well, laughable. Why? In order to be deported you'd have to not have a record of citizenship, EVERYONE who is a citizen, through any means, has a record of it they have no control over. If you're legal, you're safe, not from inconveniences, no one is, but from the woes of being illegal.

No more on this though. It's here, it's not going anywhere,cry all you want but that's not goin' to change it. Crying wont get you anywhere, which is why you guys have never and will never be in control of "the big picture".
 
Strid said:
In order to be deported you'd have to not have a record of citizenship, EVERYONE who is a citizen, through any means, has a record of it they have no control over. If you're legal, you're safe, not from inconveniences, no one is, but from the woes of being illegal.
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I'm not talking about deportation of illegals. The authorities already do that when they catch them. I'm talking about U.S. citizens being arrested and spending the night in jail because they're not the right color and not carrying a birth certificate and an electricity bill or whatever other forms of ID will satisfy whatever cop thinks they're illegals. The law is so broad it allows cops to ask for that kind of documentation pretty much whenever they want. I'm sure every employer is ultra-understanding about why you got arrested and will let you keep your job if you miss a few days while you sort everything out.

I read the memo from one of the legislators who wanted to cast as wide a net as possible. You don't even have to be breaking the law, just a city ordinance. If a cop is driving along and sees a car on blocks, he can walk up to the house and ask you to prove you're a U.S. citizen. I doubt very many white people will be asked to do so under the current law.
 
Given that I don't go anywhere without my ID, I can't help but think people are exaggerating the risk factor in that one regard.

And one minor point:
Halifrien said:
The authorities already do that when they catch them.
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Which authorities?

That is the primary issue that this bill is trying to address, albeit in a flawed fashion. If a local police officer has someone who he highly suspects is in the country illegally... he can't do anything about it. He has to let the guy go, maybe tell INS about him, but realistically the guy will know that and not be around when or if INS comes looking.

Bear in mind that frankly I support the mandatory carrying of ID cards for everyone, not just immigrants. In order to properly process someone, the police have to know who you are, and refusal to comply should land you in jail, in my opinion.
 
Raesvelg said:
That is the primary issue that this bill is trying to address, albeit in a flawed fashion. If a local police officer has someone who he highly suspects is in the country illegally... he can't do anything about it.
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I meant when they catch an illegal immgrant committing a crime, but I see your point.

Bear in mind that frankly I support the mandatory carrying of ID cards for everyone, not just immigrants. In order to properly process someone, the police have to know who you are, and refusal to comply should land you in jail, in my opinion.
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I disagree. We're not required to carry ID. We're not even required to identify ourselves to police. You have to show your driver's license to a cop if they pull you over, but that's not exactly the same thing.
 
Halifirien said:
I disagree. We're not required to carry ID. We're not even required to identify ourselves to police. You have to show your driver's license to a cop if they pull you over, but that's not exactly the same thing.
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I'm aware.

I just feel that things should be different, and that there is no justifiable reason to support the current system in which a police officer may well have a perpetrator in custody, but be unable to confirm their identity, and be forced to release them.

I also realize that various people go into frothing fits when the phrase "national database" gets mentioned, for reasons that remain largely unclear to me.
 
It'll only take one or two instances of abuse for the courts to take action. This is the sort of law the Supreme Court decision justices get wet dreams about. My opinion on the law hasn't changed since my prior posts, but I'm not too concerned about the law. I don't think it'll survive in its current form very long. Whether it's compromise or heavy handed court action, a law like this can't be around for long.
 
Pompidou said:
It'll only take one or two instances of abuse for the courts to take action. This is the sort of law the Supreme Court decision justices get wet dreams about. My opinion on the law hasn't changed since my prior posts, but I'm not too concerned about the law. I don't think it'll survive in its current form very long. Whether it's compromise or heavy handed court action, a law like this can't be around for long.
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what we should be afraid of is if this law doesn't get challenged by the supreme court, cause then the slope just gets slipperier...next they will want to register fat people and you will have to show your overweight card if you are going into a mcdonalds or you would have to get a card from your health insurance company stating if you've ever had an abortion and you would have to show it every time you went in for birth control or the morning after pill

people think that's extreme but you'd be suprised at what people will do when you prove to them that they can get away with some things

...give them an inch and they take a mile
 
Well that's one of the more ridiculous abuses of the Slippery Slope argument that I've ever seen.
 
Halifirien said:
But it made for a decent movie called Gattaca. lol
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I never could sit all the way through that movie. There's just something about Ethan Hawke that I don't like.

My point, however, stands. There is a light year of distance between creating laws to assist in the apprehension of criminals, and laws criminalizing behavior.
 
Raesvelg said:
I never could sit all the way through that movie. There's just something about Ethan Hawke that I don't like.

My point, however, stands. There is a light year of distance between creating laws to assist in the apprehension of criminals, and laws criminalizing behavior.
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the two examples I fabricated where to the extreme, obviously those kind of laws won't be made, I'm just saying that if you allow a law such as this to have that veil of racism there, whehter it be intended or not, you'll find that other laws may take it a step further and be open about its discriminatory nature.

again give them an inch and they take a mile
 
Strid said:
See, I can't help in my head but to thank, "uh huh, yeah, buck up and get real." I don't subscribe to that hug a tree, save the earth, everyone matter bullshit. We're to lax on immigration in this nation, the solutions wont be liked and they wont start out perfect, get the fuck over it. When you're illegally in Mexico, just fuckin' try and ask the Federally to take his gun out of your face for a second while your on your way to some shit hole cell where your livelihood is sure to be the number one thing on their agenda.
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I know I'm fairly late on this, but still, it's irking the hell out of me, so I have to point it out.
It's "Federale", not "Federally".

Tok said:
what we should be afraid of is if this law doesn't get challenged by the supreme court, cause then the slope just gets slipperier...next they will want to register fat people and you will have to show your overweight card if you are going into a mcdonalds or you would have to get a card from your health insurance company stating if you've ever had an abortion and you would have to show it every time you went in for birth control or the morning after pill

people think that's extreme but you'd be suprised at what people will do when you prove to them that they can get away with some things

...give them an inch and they take a mile
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God, you say that, and I'm imagining something like a stamp card.
Like, a stamp for every abortion or something ridiculous.
"Get ten stamps, and get a free month's worth of morning after pills!"
 
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