RDM/NIN epidemic and shitty gear

[Mishaela]

At high levels RDM barely has anything to do in a decident level up party, and again a level 75 PT with a half decient blink tank can go without a RDM very easily. I never said WHM and RDM have nothing to do, for the 3rd time, they "hardly have anything to do". You're a 75 WHM are you not ? If you're blowing mass amounts of MP in exp parties, then you're tank sucks ass.

If you have two jobs with virtually same roles "hardly doing anything", you're very obviously wasting a slot in the party. It gives whichever you keep more to do and can get another DD instead or something, it'll obviously make for a better party...

- Paralyze II, Dia II, Blind ... Mob is almost dead already, why waste MP when it's gonna die in 10 seconds and it can't even scratch the tank.

You said it as if any debuffs is a waste of time entirely. Honestly sorry if you didn't mean that.

Where did i say Cannon parties never take damage ?

Check bold in above quote.

Who's talking about Cannon parties anyway ?

Check bold in quote above. I don't think traditional parties kill XP mobs in 10s flat and consistently get chain 10 or higher. And they certainly can't do it without taking any damage.

(huge attempt at a personal attack)

Anyone who knowns who I am knows I have a short fuse but that I'm fine after a good vent. Know the funny thing though? There's people like you, who will get pissed just as easily as I do, and hold grudges for eternity over it. And why? Because they don't like someone's attitude. Because they were proven wrong, or insulted or whatever.

So you know what? Keep pitching your little pissy-party. I may be a short-fused bitch but the funny thing is I, unlike you, am fine after a short vent. You, on the other hand, are the one who's gonna get mad over something, throw some little snot-nosed vendetta over it, and hate that person til the end of eternity, over some crap that doesn't even matter in the long run. Oh my god, someone called you out on your actions regarding how you play Red Mage. World. F-!king. EXPLODE. You couldn't just try to prove me wrong or admit that you yourself may have made some screwup or even just worded something wrong, you had to make some huge deal over it.

Grow the f-!k up.

 

[Makelith]

This is going to be a painfully long and full of quotes post by me, but i figured i'll just lay out my thoughts on how you lost me, and probably many other people.

As for RDM/NIN in parties it blows. But at high levels when you're PT is doing 5-8k per hour, RDM can sub whatever the fuck they want and melee all they want too. Reason being is the PT is mobile and when the mob dies so fast without doing anything to the WAR/NIN or whatever blink tank, RDMs enfeebling magic is practually useless even against Weapons in many cases.

If you have a mobile cannon party and are pulling in only 5-8k per hour, and the Rdm/??? is meleeing. I don't want to say its all the Rdms fault, but a pretty good chunk of it would land on the Rdm.

RDM/NIN on the other hand is too expensive for alot of you and requires more skill if anything is to come of it.

Rdm/Nin isn't all the expensive. Only thing you need is Shihei to get the bare amount of effctiveness, and i can't imagine a Rdm/Nin with the Ninjustsu skill of a lvl 37nin is going to try to land hojo or kuryami on anything they plan on soloing. (Anything they land it on could be soloed by a rdm/anything so the /nin doesn't really matter)

Don't take it to heart, the matter of the fact is NIN is too expensive for alot of people. And NIN being less expensive than a job like Ranger is no secret. There is no reason to argue with fact.

No one is planning on arguing with the fact nin is expensive. We all know this. What you said, however, was that rdm/nin is expensive. Its crazily less expensive to take nin 1-37 than it is to take nin 1-75, but thats not really rocket science. Probably just a simple slip-up i'm thinking that got blown waaaaayyyy out of proportion.

lol I'm not asking anyone to worship RDM/NIN. I'm mearly pointing out how in the highest level, it dosn't matter what RDM subs. RDM becomes nearly useless in the higher levels for the record. Unless the PT blows ofcorase.

At that point the Rdm shouldn't even be in the party. If everything is split up fine and the rdm AND whm are consistently sitting on full MP, then ditch the rdm and get another DD (assuming its DDx3, whm, rdm, brd (but who would really merit cannon with 3 mage jobs like that)) or ditch the rdm and get a brd (assuming its DDx4, whm, rdm) or any other combination that i don't want to go in to.

Again RDM/NIN sucks in parties, but in the highest levels we can all live without RDM and if there is a RDM, in the party at these levels there is nothing to complain about if they decide to sub whatever.

Once again, if this happens, ditch the Rdm to get a more effective to the party, party member.

At higher levels...
- Paralyze II, Dia II, Blind ... Mob is almost dead already, why waste MP when it's gonna die in 10 seconds and it can't even scratch the tank.

This is the part that threw me the most, and what seems to have sparked the most up from everyone else.

While i understand what you ment now, you made it seem ALOT more like, "Why cast any enfeebles when the mob will die in a few seconds, its just wasted MP that i'll be sitting on anyways.

-Keep up the Refresh cycle... Always, but it's near usless cause the WHM's more powerful healing magic is on holiday.

-Haste Cycle ... Even easier to do cause RDM really dosn't have anything better to do.

-Nuke... As usual RDM doing any good DMG with elemental magic is commonly a lucky strike. Elemental skill does not cap high enough. If you have the MP for it go for it, but if the PT is a mobile one, it's best to take it easy on elemental magic.

To whine about a RDM/NIN being in a PT is one thing it's not rcommended. What it comes down to is if the RDM can do their job or not. At "higher levels" people need to reconize a RDM subbing NIN in parties dosn't make a difference in exp gain.

This goes back to the whole point of ditching the rdm to make the party more effective again. If i was meriting with 3xDD, rdm, brd, whm, I would probably prefer having the rdm go /nin just so he won't be sitting on his thumbs all party and actually contribute something with that joytoy/en spells. Granted its more TP for the mob, but if forced with that party line up, its probably what anyone would have the rdm do.

At higher levels the battles are short, and we see chain 10 very easily. Any support class job matters less.

If you are in one of the truely good cannons its the whole party that matters. The party is only as strong as its weakest link (cliche' i know, but a rdm/nin is a pretty damn weak link).

It's true. and especially true if there is no WHM in the PT. We're talking about level up parties though. And again RDM/NIN in LEVEL UP PTS blow. And at higher levels it really dosn't make a difference, unless the PT needs erase and the RDM has to sit in for an absant WHM.

This is also what people over looked. People are reading the difference between "Level Up Parties" (the 10-75 grind) and the "Higher Level Parties" (merits). While i don't agree with what you are saying, you must have some pretty awesome melees you merit with if you are consistently sitting on full MP doing nothing. I can imagine that all the awesome "super cannons" in nyzul isle are pushing all their party members to the brink of insanity trying to fighting off hunger and nature calling. (i was in one once. I drank alot of water before i got the invite and had to tough out my problem for a good 3 hours.)

But realistically... At higher levels a WHM/WAR won't make a difference in gain either cause the WHM never has a chance to run out of MP and in most cases goes through many battles without doing anything. I'm talking about average EXP PT to say the least. I don't think that apply to you.

This is also what throws people. In average XP a WHM/something useful would matter even more, but also in a good cannon a WHM/war probably would just not be invited so i can't really comment on that.

At high levels RDM barely has anything to do in a decident level up party, and again a level 75 PT with a half decient blink tank can go without a RDM very easily. I never said WHM and RDM have nothing to do, for the 3rd time, they "hardly have anything to do". You're a 75 WHM are you not ? If you're blowing mass amounts of MP in exp parties, then you're tank sucks ass.

The key to his whole statement is right there. I already covered that whole thing, but its just a miscommunication. Its true, if you have a decent blink tank in a level up party a rdm will hardly have anything to do. Haste x amount of people, maybe refresh 2 people, and dispel one mob. Thats hardly alot compared to a Rdms workload with something like a pld tank usually.

Show me where i said that. What i said is this ..

That means after casting 3 enfeebling spells there is no point in casting another, It would be wasteful to cast slow at this point, 6 seconds of slow is not worth wasting the MP. Where's you're brain ?

You clarified it for us, but i felt like doing it again since i was on a roll.

Where did i say Cannon parties never take damage ? Who's talking about Cannon parties anyway ? I doubt you're even barfing, that's you're childish way of trying to offend me. See how easy it is to make assumptions?

Also covered this and that whole fiasco.


That is basically why everyone was thrown off and what you did, and others did to get where we are now.

Thank you and goodnight.

 

[Mishaela]

And yes, I failed to bold properly. I'm sure that's the amazing ammo you've been waiting to use against me.

 

[Lukas]

Jobs that should not melee in exp parties: RDM, BLM, BRD, WHM, SMN.

If everyone is so leet that they don't need you to cast anything and you have all this free melee time... then you should be replaced with a real DD :O

Bolded for emphasis <_<;

 

[DarkMagnus]

No, I wasn't thrown off, he was pretty clear about "rdm and whm" can sub anything in high lvl pts. I have been in a cannon pt that did 25k+ an hour and each one of the dd's (including me) took a hit. If you can get 6 dds than never take damage, why would you have a rdm or whm to begin with?

 

[Anttaru]

If you have two jobs with virtually same roles "hardly doing anything", you're very obviously wasting a slot in the party. It gives whichever you keep more to do and can get another DD instead or something, it'll obviously make for a better party...

That is correct. But if the PT is going to have a RDM in this case, they shouldn't worry about what it subs.

You said it as if any debuffs is a waste of time entirely. Honestly sorry if you didn't mean that.

I said the RDM dosn't have time to cast "all" enfeebling magic.

Check bold in above quote.

Don't see any bold anywhere.

Check bold in quote above. I don't think traditional parties kill XP mobs in 10s flat and consistently get chain 10 or higher. And they certainly can't do it without taking any damage.

The 10 seconds i mentioned is the 10 seconds the mob has left after Dia II, Paralyze II, and Bind has been casted. casting slow in this case would make for 6 seconds of slow time before the mob dies. Give or take from this example, casting a 4th enfeeble isn't worth the given time.

Anyone who knowns who I am knows I have a short fuse but that I'm fine after a good vent.

Oh yes it's also fine that you burn peoples names into the flameboard making others less accepting of people who made mistakes before you. But when you feel better so does you're readers, and there is no damage towards the one you make a thread about ?

Know the funny thing though? There's people like you, who will get pissed just as easily as I do, and hold grudges for eternity over it. And why? Because they don't like someone's attitude. Because they were proven wrong, or insulted or whatever.

That's very untrue. I don't have any grudges with anyone. I once said to you Mishaela, if you're going to come to me, be friendly. And did you ? No. It dosn't hurt my feelings or anything. All it does is make me look like a monster here cause i have 2 or 3 of you trying to tackle me here.

As far as peoples attitude and me. A little off topic here, but my best friend is bi-polar and has some serious anger management issues, even turns on me from time to time, and who do you think is still there for him ?

Someone drinks a beer and punches me in the mouth, i'm going to be like WTF, yet i'll smile when i see them next.

Some bastard i don't know literally come to my house at 2 AM in the morning asking for emergency gas money, i give him a twenty.

What i'm showing you is, you really don't know me, and it's not for you to tell me what kind of person i am, and say how i hold grudges for an eternity.

So you know what? Keep pitching your little pissy-party. I may be a short-fused bitch but the funny thing is I, unlike you, am fine after a short vent.

I only told you like it is, and called you a bitch. Seriously that is the first time i ever called someone a name on qcdn. I'm not kicking and screaming, i just feel you need to learn to stop making assumptions.

You, on the other hand, are the one who's gonna get mad over something, throw some little snot-nosed vendetta over it, and hate that person til the end of eternity, over some crap that doesn't even matter in the long run. Oh my god, someone called you out on your actions regarding how you play Red Mage.

I had already mentioned personally i don't sub NIN in parties, but at high levels it can be done. I'm speaking for all RDM's wheather they agree or not. RDM can do all things RDM in a party even if they sub NIN, and in high level parties that are on fire with a good set up. RDM can get away with subbing whatever.

World. F-!king. EXPLODE. You couldn't just try to prove me wrong or admit that you yourself may have made some screwup or even just worded something wrong, you had to make some huge deal over it.

Grow the f-!k up.

Why should i have to prove you wrong ? Don't you ever get any nice Ninjas at 75 that make you do nothing more than enhance and enfeeble for long periods of time ?

This isn't even a huge deal to me, and in colaberation as to what i said to you, it's me telling you to grow up. Cause you don't see me trying to destroy people's game on the flameboard on the regular. I greet and talk to all people i know who dislike me and feel good about it. I even have my greatest foe in qcdn on my good side and we scrap to no end. Even he knows i don't wish to make enemies with anyone, and Mishaela if you're gonna disrespect someone, then you need to prepare to be disrespected. Normally i chose not to deal with these kind of encounters in this way, but i feel you have a problem, and i don't want none of that coming my way.

 

[Kreoss]

Anttaru's points might be better-received if he didn't express them like an illiterate jackhole with raging PMS.

 

[Anttaru]

As for RDM/NIN in parties it blows. But at high levels when you're PT is doing 5-8k per hour, RDM can sub whatever the fuck they want and melee all they want too. Reason being is the PT is mobile and when the mob dies so fast without doing anything to the WAR/NIN or whatever blink tank, RDMs enfeebling magic is practually useless even against Weapons in many cases.

If you have a mobile cannon party and are pulling in only 5-8k per hour, and the Rdm/??? is meleeing. I don't want to say its all the Rdms fault, but a pretty good chunk of it would land on the Rdm.

Cannon party is different. The RDM will refresh and haste cycle if they want to be a star. Still i'm not talking about Cannon party. Still in this case the RDM can do all duties without resting.

RDM/NIN on the other hand is too expensive for alot of you and requires more skill if anything is to come of it.

Rdm/Nin isn't all the expensive. Only thing you need is Shihei to get the bare amount of effctiveness, and i can't imagine a Rdm/Nin with the Ninjustsu skill of a lvl 37nin is going to try to land hojo or kuryami on anything they plan on soloing. (Anything they land it on could be soloed by a rdm/anything so the /nin doesn't really matter)

I said for alaot of you, not all of you, or most of you. That was part of my response to someone telling me they would never level NIN for their sub, which isn't important. Shihei is cheap but amazingly i have seen many cases where sadly, a simple stack of Shihei is not on the players budget. Alot of people, not all and i never said most.

Don't take it to heart, the matter of the fact is NIN is too expensive for alot of people. And NIN being less expensive than a job like Ranger is no secret. There is no reason to argue with fact.

No one is planning on arguing with the fact nin is expensive. We all know this. What you said, however, was that rdm/nin is expensive. Its crazily less expensive to take nin 1-37 than it is to take nin 1-75, but thats not really rocket science. Probably just a simple slip-up i'm thinking that got blown waaaaayyyy out of proportion.

Boosting evasion on a RDM/NIN does help, but they are still not like THF or NIN naturally, so Shihei does get blown away a little faster for RDM/NIN. It's not a major gil threat to the average consumer of Utsumi Ichi and NI's, but it's still more costly to use it on RDM/NIN.

lol I'm not asking anyone to worship RDM/NIN. I'm mearly pointing out how in the highest level, it dosn't matter what RDM subs. RDM becomes nearly useless in the higher levels for the record. Unless the PT blows ofcorase.

At that point the Rdm shouldn't even be in the party. If everything is split up fine and the rdm AND whm are consistently sitting on full MP, then ditch the rdm and get another DD (assuming its DDx3, whm, rdm, brd (but who would really merit cannon with 3 mage jobs like that)) or ditch the rdm and get a brd (assuming its DDx4, whm, rdm) or any other combination that i don't want to go in to.

But it happens, The RDM has haste which the PT likes to have. Also a mage should not play in a party they are not welcome in, it's that easy, and RDM really isn't so much of a big help in some cases, unless we're talking PLD tank.

Again RDM/NIN sucks in parties, but in the highest levels we can all live without RDM and if there is a RDM, in the party at these levels there is nothing to complain about if they decide to sub whatever.

Once again, if this happens, ditch the Rdm to get a more effective to the party, party member.

If you demand absolute perfection from you're PT then sure ditch the RDM, although the RDM ensures stability in teh event the BRD fails to handle links. Me and the other hand will keep the un-needed member considering we're still doing well. It's not weakness to not ditch someone, it has greater long term effects.

At higher levels...
- Paralyze II, Dia II, Blind ... Mob is almost dead already, why waste MP when it's gonna die in 10 seconds and it can't even scratch the tank.

This is the part that threw me the most, and what seems to have sparked the most up from everyone else.

While i understand what you ment now, you made it seem ALOT more like, "Why cast any enfeebles when the mob will die in a few seconds, its just wasted MP that i'll be sitting on anyways.[/quote]

I should have started with "After casting para dia blind ...."

I mentioned somewhere in here how a 4th casting wouldn't be nessary, just not there i supose. But thank you, and thanks for not being an ass.

-Keep up the Refresh cycle... Always, but it's near usless cause the WHM's more powerful healing magic is on holiday.

-Haste Cycle ... Even easier to do cause RDM really dosn't have anything better to do.

-Nuke... As usual RDM doing any good DMG with elemental magic is commonly a lucky strike. Elemental skill does not cap high enough. If you have the MP for it go for it, but if the PT is a mobile one, it's best to take it easy on elemental magic.

To whine about a RDM/NIN being in a PT is one thing it's not rcommended. What it comes down to is if the RDM can do their job or not. At "higher levels" people need to reconize a RDM subbing NIN in parties dosn't make a difference in exp gain.

This goes back to the whole point of ditching the rdm to make the party more effective again. If i was meriting with 3xDD, rdm, brd, whm, I would probably prefer having the rdm go /nin just so he won't be sitting on his thumbs all party and actually contribute something with that joytoy/en spells. Granted its more TP for the mob, but if forced with that party line up, its probably what anyone would have the rdm do.

Some people don't mind this, but others do and will request for the RDM to stand back even though they are getting the RDMs all. Some have no real reason for this, others say the RDM is just giving the mob extra TP (as if an extra TP attack would mess up a party that is taking tiny scratches of damage next to none).

At higher levels the battles are short, and we see chain 10 very easily. Any support class job matters less.

If you are in one of the truely good cannons its the whole party that matters. The party is only as strong as its weakest link (cliche' i know, but a rdm/nin is a pretty damn weak link).

In a Cannon PT, the RDM can still sub anything and get away with it, so long as they can hold down their duities. Subbing a BLM in this case won't help much. The RDM/BLM will have a stage 1 conserve MP which is not much of a loss considering the RDM is doing less work cause it's a cannon PT.

It's true. and especially true if there is no WHM in the PT. We're talking about level up parties though. And again RDM/NIN in LEVEL UP PTS blow. And at higher levels it really dosn't make a difference, unless the PT needs erase and the RDM has to sit in for an absant WHM.

This is also what people over looked. People are reading the difference between "Level Up Parties" (the 10-75 grind) and the "Higher Level Parties" (merits). While i don't agree with what you are saying, you must have some pretty awesome melees you merit with if you are consistently sitting on full MP doing nothing. I can imagine that all the awesome "super cannons" in nyzul isle are pushing all their party members to the brink of insanity trying to fighting off hunger and nature calling. (i was in one once. I drank alot of water before i got the invite and had to tough out my problem for a good 3 hours.)

Never sitting on full MP cause there are still things for the RDM to do, just not as demanding as before, i mentioned how the RDM hardly has anything to do. A RDM has the greatest ability to generate MP don't forget, so not having much of a chance to be as spendy with MP makes for too comfortable of a convert clock.

But realistically... At higher levels a WHM/WAR won't make a difference in gain either cause the WHM never has a chance to run out of MP and in most cases goes through many battles without doing anything. I'm talking about average EXP PT to say the least. I don't think that apply to you.

This is also what throws people. In average XP a WHM/something useful would matter even more, but also in a good cannon a WHM/war probably would just not be invited so i can't really comment on that.

Not talking about Cannon PT's i'm talking about PTs with a good Ninja.

At high levels RDM barely has anything to do in a decident level up party, and again a level 75 PT with a half decient blink tank can go without a RDM very easily. I never said WHM and RDM have nothing to do, for the 3rd time, they "hardly have anything to do". You're a 75 WHM are you not ? If you're blowing mass amounts of MP in exp parties, then you're tank sucks ass.

The key to his whole statement is right there. I already covered that whole thing, but its just a miscommunication. Its true, if you have a decent blink tank in a level up party a rdm will hardly have anything to do. Haste x amount of people, maybe refresh 2 people, and dispel one mob. Thats hardly alot compared to a Rdms workload with something like a pld tank usually.

/nod

That is basically why everyone was thrown off and what you did, and others did to get where we are now.

Thank you and goodnight.

And thank you Makelith, you are a real gentalmen. (Personally i think you're really smart, and i hate to see them turn against you for you're beliefs, or understanding what i'm talking about.)

 

[Anttaru]

Anttaru's points might be better-received if he didn't express them like an illiterate jackhole with raging PMS.

I'm sorry, but when did i attack you ?

 

[Kreoss]

I'm sorry, but when did i attack you ?

You didn't, but you attacked Mish for no apparent reason. (Don't even give me "zmog ur one of her posse!" either, I barely know her.) And you started off everyone tearing into you with your belligerent tone way back in the first pages of the flame.

If you'd just calmly said that you thought RDM/NIN had its uses, and that in certain merit parties, it was more useful than /WHM or /BLM, this would've turned out a bit differently. It's -how- you say it as much as it is -what- you say. Hell, look at Vang. I usually agree with the content of what he says, but he says it in such an inflammatory manner that it just becomes trolling.

And it really is a pity when decent content gets written off as trolling, wouldn't you agree?

 

[DarkMagnus]

Wow @ all the quotes(quoted)quotes. Also if someone can't afford 3k for a stack or even 30k for a stack of toolbags , just kill some bee's.

 

[Anttaru]

You didn't, but you attacked Mish for no apparent reason. (Don't even give me "zmog ur one of her posse!" either, I barely know her.) And you started off everyone tearing into you with your belligerent tone way back in the first pages of the flame.

Says the Judge of all persona.

Mishaela likes to bicker about people and wreck their game too much, I don't want to hear "I hope to God you not one of those" rolling my way off of her smelly lip. For a long time she's been a source of people being avioded for miniture reasons she cannot handle herself. I don't wish to compare myself to her or you for that matter, But i never said i was better than anyone.

If you'd just calmly said that you thought RDM/NIN had its uses, and that in certain merit parties, it was more useful than /WHM or /BLM, this would've turned out a bit differently. It's -how- you say it as much as it is -what- you say.

What Mishaela said to me about tollerating personalities, should be directed at you. Too bad for you, you're too soft to handle me. I'm waiting for debate, not insult. i'm expecting people to come at me for saying RDM/anything is more acceptable at 75 for crying out loud.

Hell, look at Vang. I usually agree with the content of what he says, but he says it in such an inflammatory manner that it just becomes trolling.

I don't think we're supose to even mention Vang's name here. Vang is a racists too i'm positive you know that. He's also in my HNMLS, on business terms. To serve and be served. So i let him stay there. From what i see he is not such a bad guy in person although i don't agree with his values.

Between you and i, you're the one casting insults at me, dosn't that make you my troll ? Sorry i'm not an editor, but atleast you can understand a good dose of this.

And it really is a pity when decent content gets written off as trolling, wouldn't you agree?

Again i never said i was better than anyone. Are you done with me yet ?

 

[Dias]

I was one of those rdm/nin people whom never used /blm /whm ever back in the day,took myself all the way to 63 with that combob until I realized I liked casting blm spells better and was running out of mp too fast BUT I did my job,someone needed refresh they had it,need a cure? you got it, need haste? you got it.

yeah I got booted from parties for having /nin sometimes,boohoo-I moved on and got another one-but last I checked I paid for the game,and also paid the monthly fee for it also,so I guess until people that complain how I do my job start paying for my game I'll stick to what I wanna sub....granted I have not used /nin in a pty in over a year. dont like me giving the mob TP with joytoy? fine I'll equip 2 really weak daggers and enspell them and do about 22-23 per hit without giving it TP,easy as that.

 

[Anttaru]

So long as the RDM does everything they are supose to do it's ok. Alot of people don't know this, but RDM/??? makes a great dummy for THF to trick off of. Most people would rather burn more MP on cure III than use this method. Life is hard.

 

[Makelith]

And it really is a pity when decent content gets written off as trolling, wouldn't you agree?

It sure is. You should be a bit more careful about what you preach to people when you do practice it either.

 

[Makelith]

It sure is. You should be a bit more careful about what you preach to people when you don't practice it either.

Spelling errorz on the FB suck.

 

[Rappa]

Wow, there's a whole lot of unnecessary attitude in this topic. As for sub, subbing nin offers nothing to an XP PARTY (key phrase) whereas both whm and blm have various uses (curaga from whm to wake up after a sleepga, sleepga itself from blm sub and conserve mp). As for rdm in a merit pt, there are definitely times where you need to be enfeebling. On THF and NIN mamools you should be using both Dia and Gravity. Chains can depend on it. Not every mob, but enfeebles have their place. Anyway this topic has too much pointless flaming and negativity in it so I don't really want to participate any more than I did just now.

 

[Zaltana]

this page doesnt surprise me. Mish never backs down from a challenge.

 

[Blazeoffury]

To Anttaru:
Classy posts Ant. Too bad most of it went over everyone's heads... if they would take the time to actually read (ie: not skim) over your posts they would see that what you're saying makes a lot of since, also there are way too many assumptions being tossed around. Why everyone keeps mentioning cannon PTs when you have clearly stated over and over again you're speaking of normal PT setups is beyond me.

To Everyone else (excluding Make because he actually read.):
READ THE FUCKING POSTS BEFORE COMMENTING. All I see is people skimming over Ant's post and seeing rdm/nin and Pt in the same post and going "omfgzorz rdm/nin is teh sukzorz lawl" and the going off on any putting words in his posts that he himself never put there. Take time and read the posts and stop making yourself look like an illiterate little fuck.

 

[Rappa]

READ THE FUCKING POSTS BEFORE COMMENTING.

I'm guessing you and Anttaru didn't read the OP, as it was clearly about a rdm/nin in an EXPERIENCE POINTS PARTY (bolded and all-caps cause that makes things serious business on forums). If you're a rdm/nin in my experience points party you're going on my blacklist. Yes rdm/nin is obviously useful to pt with on non-xp things, but that's not why this topic was created.