Thf/RNG merits

Uzor said:
The only place you really need Curaga II on is Caedarva Mire on flies. But with fully merited bar-spells and Shellra V up, you have -35% magic damage taken, as well as a rather high chance to outright resist Cursed Sphere. So you rarely need to use above Curaga. Either way, from their previous posts, I assume they're not talking about imps and flies. In which case the need for Curaga II is completely gone, other then the occasional mage or blue mage mamool ja. But those can be silenced.
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I agree with you, tho it's a small percent of all the thf's and whm's that know how to play. So under perfect sircumstances, sure why the hell not go /war, this is for both thf's and mnk's.
 
Rorion said:
I agree with you, tho it's a small percent of all the thf's and whm's that know how to play. So under perfect sircumstances, sure why the hell not go /war, this is for both thf's and mnk's.
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Less MNK. MNK will pull the hate simply from regular attacks, without even using WS's
MNK/NIN is for a different reason than THF/NIN. With THF, its so you dont have to hold back on your WS. With MNK, its so you dont have to face away every few attack rounds so as not to die.
 
A meat thf/war will pull hate just as much (if not more) than a sushi MNK for normal attacks; that's another reason why I like to sub /nin.
 
Uzor said:
Once again you prove to be a moron. I didn't say no damage. I said your mage is retarded if he don't use barfira. Reduced damage does not equall 0 damage. And yes, I'm well aware what I'm talking about.

I do find it highly ironic though that you keep repeating I'm wrong. But yet, you can't prove me wrong. It should be a simple task if I'm wrong. correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your last post is a pathetic attempt to to and prove me wrong a last time. It seem that oyur philosphy is "if you can't prove someone wrong, the best way is to say they're wrong and then leave". Yeah. Back away with your tail between your legs. That always worked for you before.
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If you actually had my philosophy right, I'd let that fly since there's no point in trying to make sense to the senseless. But you don't have a clue what my philosophy is either.

My philosophy is to attempt to show someone that doesn't know what they are talking about where they've gone stray. I did that, but I won't hold your little bitch hand the entire way. I don't need to repeat my points to you. I've called upon all my past responses plenty, and each time you come back not understanding it. As soon as you understand what I've said throughout the thread, you'll see that what you've been saying the entire thread has been completely unnecessary. It's seriously ridiculous.


Necro, Lionsheart, myself and others have done a great job at mentioning the reasons why /NIN > /WAR for the majority of merit parties. We all play THF, and get it. You don't play THF and you don't get it. Even still, you don't, after all the examples and explaining. The best thing you've come up with is to say I haven't proven you wrong again and again. The fact is that I have. The fact is that others have. You simply don't feel like yielding to the experts. Go back and reread what THFs have written. I just did. It's all there.

Nobody ever said /WAR is crap. I love to go /WAR and be a more offensive THF when that is the optimal configuration. Most of the time, for merits, /WAR is not optimal.
You WILL take more damage and slow the pace of the party.

If that wasn't the case:
1) You'd be right.
2) You'd see masses of people that actually play THF subbing WAR in merits.


Specific scenarios aside, you don't grasp the big picture if you bring /WAR to merits.
 
Rorion said:
So under perfect sircumstances, sure why the hell not go /war,
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Exactly. That's roughly about what it takes to make /WAR the better sub.
Near perfect circumstances.
 
thing is, Sneaky. You don't seem to understand. I've said myself that /NIN is a good sub if you pull hate all the time. Although I suppose you just read what you want to read and ignore the rest. What I *DID* say was that /WAR is an excellent sub.

Your mentality throughout this entire thread have been that if you sub /WAR, the WHM will run our of MP as soon as you get hit. I've enlightened you many times that this will not be the case unless the WHM sucks. And he'd suck wheither you sub /NIN or not. So talking about being a MP sponge is completely unrelated to the issue. I do find it highly hillarious though that accordign to you, WHM apparently have nothing to do with it. But the other melees do. I suppose stupid people don't see the strangeness in that.

An no. It doesn't have to be near perfect circumstances.
 
Uzor said:
An no. It doesn't have to be near perfect circumstances.
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Ok then I have only had bad luck the past 3 years playing as thf.
The times I've used /war and done ok has been with friends that
I know. It's simply not worth subbing war and head out to w/e camp
with 5 strangers in the pt.
Nowadays there's much to many rdm's and whm's with so bad gear, hell
even the gilsellers looks well equipped. And with bad gear comes the bad
player more often then the other way around.

So no matter what anyone say, I'd go /nin if I where to merit on thf.
(And for those who does not read previous posts: I'd go /war to specific
campsites. And for those who did not read this entire post: I'd go w/e
with /war if I knew the guys I'm in pt with... hmmm... yeah.)
 
A party with friends is nowhere near a perfect circumstance, though. that's a good circumstance. A perfect circumstance would be everyone having the best gear available and all with extremely good skills. A party with friends is merely someone who most of the time have OK equip for their job and decent playing skills.

So no, you don't need perfect circumstances. As you just proved yourself.
 
Is anyone else aware that Sneaky and Uzor are basically agreeing with eachother but still arguing?
 
Well, I've just been skimming here and there so I'm sorry if I'm repeating things other people have said, but I just don't understand why there is even an arguement.

The reason NIN sub is preferred is because THF can SA+WS more freely without having to worry about taking hits, or rather, not as much as without shadows. Subbing WAR will mostly lower your defense since you'll be berserking, and THF, as great as their evasion is, can't possibly be expected to dodge all the nasty attacks from Mamools. Also you generally wouldn't be wearing much in the way of evasion since most of the good damage gear lacks the stat.

The point is not that we think the WHM will run out of MP because one guy doesn't have shadows, it's that the party's potential will go down because you're spending more MP than you need to healing him. This doesn't mean you can't have /WAR and have a continuous chain, it just means that it becomes more difficult to do so.

I know when I join merit parties, I'm not really looking for a test of skill. That's what HNM and other events are for. I believe experience parties should be casual and laid-back, so shadows are a must for me.

If you get a party with a healer that is desperate to prove theirself, then by all means, sub WAR. It is a fact, though, that the majority of players prefer a more casual style of play like myself.
 
Uzor said:
A party with friends is nowhere near a perfect circumstance, though. that's a good circumstance. A perfect circumstance would be everyone having the best gear available and all with extremely good skills. A party with friends is merely someone who most of the time have OK equip for their job and decent playing skills.

So no, you don't need perfect circumstances. As you just proved yourself.
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My perfect friends fits perfectly into theese perfect circumstances tyvm. :P


All I'm saying is that it's such a small percentage of random bbqpartys
that is good enough to let thf's sub war, thus making it not worth the trouble.
Hence why thf's should sub /nin in merit partys where they have no idea
who the other guys are.
 
Iunno about you, but I almost always know atleast half the party unless I'm partying during JP prime time. And most of the time, for some reason, most JP parties suck either way <.<;
 
Reko said:
Depends who your friends are.
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Indeed, but I highly doubt all of your friends have the best gear available. Unless you have a rather limited ammount of friends ^.~

I have lots of friends. Some of them have great gear, some of them have decent. Some of them have average gear. Even with the average gear I haven't had a problem main healing people with /WAR sub that pull hate.
 
Uzor said:
Even with the average gear I haven't had a problem main healing people with /WAR sub that pull hate.
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That's cuz an avarage thf/war, most likely does'nt have the merits, or
the gear, (duh), to do dmg, as I mentioned.


This discussion is pointless, since I know I'm right. :)
 
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If you are in cannon style merit that has war and nin in it, the thief can easily do /war sub without any problem. Hell, I'd tell them to sub war to increase their dmg so they can atleast semi-keep up. If the melees are paying attention there's no reason they can't grab hate of the thf by voke and normal hits alone. Yeah, I know all the THF are going to start saying you can do great dmg on par with war and such, and that's power to you. But you are a well equipped thief, partying with subpar wars and ninjas. Unless you have Mandau, you will not be keeping up with top tier wars or ninjas. You'll do good damage, but it won't be omg great that you will be getting every minute of everyfight. Regen 3 and occasional Cure 5 or curage will keep thf/war just fine.
 
Sneakypants said:
Being a THF helps like that.
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Moosebuddies unite!

<3
 
see, Artem see my point too. Unless your WHM seriously sucks, THF/WAR won't slow the party down. Yes, it is dependant on the rest of your party. But if the rest of the party sucks, just tell them to gtfo. And remember not to party with them again.

That's cuz an avarage thf/war, most likely does'nt have the merits, or
the gear, (duh), to do dmg, as I mentioned.


This discussion is pointless, since I know I'm right. :smile:
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I know a lot of THF's that's fully merited with awesome gear. And I can party with them, even on THF/WAR.
 
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