Thf/RNG merits

People try to discuss the topic in a civilized way, and all of a sudden a mage only person walk by who doesn't have THIEF lvled at all and chipping in his input in such an aggressive manner.

Nice.

Once again, /war on mnk, thf , drg will eventually leads to extra MP usage. Why? Coz this member cannot take hits with 0 Dmg reliably and RELIES on other member to take hits for them. You increase your own output in the cost of the war/nin or Nin's output.

As for mandau user subbing war.... As far as i know, only lordwafik heavily advocates /war, wanna know his pt setup? 3 mage 3 meelee. Icing on the cake, he admits that the preference of choice is because he doesn't have suppa and less than optimal TP gear.


One last thing, you do realize Thieves do get bonus from /nin while mnk does get any offensive benefit from the sub right?
 
Sneakypants said:
I'm not going to bother digging into all your posts, quoting you to prove it. Everyone can read.

Tough cookies for you. You're just like the other guy that came in here that doesn't play THF. Making gross assumptions, then chaging your tune to cover your tracks. Go Cure V for 900 or something, and trust that I won't come and tell you the best way to do that. lol
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Gross assumptions? Necrosis said that /WAR sub isn't good for THF. All I said was that its a very viable sub for THF, and far from sucks. I never said it was the best sub, and I never said NIN was either. All I said was that THF do work and can be a very good sub. That's not a gross assumption, its the truth.

Once again, /war on mnk, thf , drg will eventually leads to extra MP usage. Why? Coz this member cannot take hits with 0 Dmg reliably and RELIES on other member to take hits for them. You increase your own output in the cost of the war/nin or Nin's output.

As for mandau user subbing war.... As far as i know, only lordwafik heavily advocates /war, wanna know his pt setup? 3 mage 3 meelee. Icing on the cake, he admits that the preference of choice is because he doesn't have suppa and less than optimal TP gear.


One last thing, you do realize Thieves do get bonus from /nin while mnk does get any offensive benefit from the sub right?
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Yes, I'm well aware that MNK don't get any benefit from NIN. But we're not talking about MNK's, now are we?

And once again, stop bringing up MP usage in the party. MP usage have nothign to do with it. I keep telling you that if you have a BRD or a RDM, MP usage will NOT be a problem. You won't run out of MP unless the WHM suck. So being an MP sponge have nothing to do with it. Thus, you can disregard MP usage.
 
Uzor said:
Gross assumptions? Necrosis said that /WAR sub isn't good for THF. All I said was that its a very viable sub for THF, and far from sucks. I never said it was the best sub, and I never said NIN was either. All I said was that THF do work and can be a very good sub. That's not a gross assumption, its the truth.
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I said it wasn't practical, I'm well-aware it's a good sub, thanks.
 
Uzor said:
Gross assumptions? Necrosis said that /WAR sub isn't good for THF. All I said was that its a very viable sub for THF, and far from sucks. I never said it was the best sub, and I never said NIN was either. All I said was that THF do work and can be a very good sub. That's not a gross assumption, its the truth.
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Nobody ever said WAR sub was bad for THF, just like nobody ever said DEX was bad for THF. We know that, and we know what you said earlier. Just stop. It was pathetic when people came in before you and ended up treading the water of their drowning egos. It's just sad now to see people that don't have their facts straight stop by pages later and insist they have a point, reitterate the same false information, use other people's words as their own after they get called out, etc. Just cut it out. It's a discussion about THFs, amongst THFs. Since you showed us what you know, you can at least be respectful or just shut up if you can't manage that.
 
Sneakypants said:
Nobody ever said WAR sub was bad for THF, just like nobody ever said DEX was bad for THF. We know that, and we know what you said earlier. Just stop. It was pathetic when people came in before you and ended up treading the water of their drowning egos. It's just sad now to see people that don't have their facts straight stop by pages later and insist they have a point, reitterate the same false information, use other people's words as their own after they get called out, etc. Just cut it out. It's a discussion about THFs, amongst THFs. Since you showed us what you know, you can at least be respectful or just shut up if you can't manage that.
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I never argued about DEX. What I said was that WAR was a good sub job. At which point you go on to say that you'll be an MP sink. Which is a straight out lie. You said yourself you don't like people spreeading missinformation. Well, you spread missinformation. Obviously you're too narrow minded to see that you were wrong about being an MP sink, though. And why should I be respectfull and shut up? If you don't like the argument, you don't have to join in it. Personally I find it highly amusing to argue with people who think only 1 sub works for every job without being an MP sink. Especially when they use arguments like "think out of the box".

In other words, the only job combos that apparently work are THF/NIN, WAR/NIN, MNK/NIN, RDM/WHM, BRD/WHM, NIN/WAR, WHM/BLM. All other job combos are nub-only and MP sinks. All other jobs are a waste of space and shouldn't exist. K, got it. inside the box {Can I have it?}
 
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Uzor said:
I never argued about DEX. What I said was that WAR was a good sub job. At which point you go on to say that you'll be an MP sink. Which is a straight out lie. You said yourself you don't like people spreeading missinformation. Well, you spread missinformation. Obviously you're too narrow minded to see that you were wrong about being an MP sink, though. And why should I be respectfull and shut up? If you don't like the argument, you don't have to join in it. Personally I find it highly amusing to argue with people who think only 1 sub works for every job without being an MP sink. Especially when they use arguments like "think out of the box".

In other words, the only job combos that apparently work are THF/NIN, WAR/NIN, MNK/NIN, RDM/WHM, BRD/WHM, NIN/WAR, WHM/BLM. All other job combos are nub-only and MP sinks. All other jobs are a waste of space and shouldn't exist. K, got it. inside the box {Can I have it?}
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When did I say you said anything about DEX?
What you are wrong about is WAR as a subjob, given contexts.
You are the one trying to paint this discussion in a B&W format when all the respectable THFs here know damn well that is not the case. You are arguing for the sake of arguing, and this is not the first time you have been proud of that.

I didn't say what you are saying I said. I do not look at THF narrowly, believe me. I look at it realistically. You obviously do not. Several people have corrected you, and you are bruised now and are having a tough time dealing with that. That's your personal problem.

Not 100% of what you say is wrong. But it sure isn't as clear cut as you say either. The reasons have been discussed plenty. You are just off base, that's all.
 
Sneakypants said:
When did I say you said anything about DEX?
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Nobody ever said WAR sub was bad for THF, just like nobody ever said DEX was bad for THF.
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That's what I was refering to. I never mentioned anything about DEX.

What you are wrong about is WAR as a subjob, given contexts.
You are the one trying to paint this discussion in a B&W format when all the respectable THFs here know damn well that is not the case. You are arguing for the sake of arguing, and this is not the first time you have been proud of that.

I didn't say what you are saying I said. I do not look at THF narrowly, believe me. I look at it realistically. You obviously do not. Several people have corrected you, and you are bruised now and are having a tough time dealing with that. That's your personal problem.

Not 100% of what you say is wrong. But it sure isn't as clear cut as you say either. The reasons have been discussed plenty. You are just off base, that's all.
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Please do mention what I'm wrong about WAR SJ. I said its a perfectly viable sub for THF. So which one is it? that part? or the part when I said that WAR sub requires a slight change of tactics? or what WAR SJ doesn't automatically equall MP sponge? or that /WAR sub have potentially higher damage output then /NIN? Because those are the only things I've mentioned.

As for the bolded part. You obviously do look it rather narrowly considerign your previous argments. And I'm in no way bruised, because I haven't been proven wrong. The only counter arguments you have ever brought up was being an MP sink. Yeah. You make a bad attempt at countering one of my arguments and that suddenly bruises me? Just, wow. That's not even a good argument.
 
My THF, with haste, TPs in around 25s, give or take. Therefore, I get more benefit out of splitting up SAWS and TAWS. I can safely do that as /nin, and not worry about getting smacked by the mob.

With /war (and especially during zerk times), I can't do that. Why, you ask? Because I'll get hit pretty damn hard, and considering my HP with HH pie is only around 1250, I can drop fast if you throw a rushing drub or firespit into the equation.
 
Necrosis said:
My THF, with haste, TPs in around 25s, give or take. Therefore, I get more benefit out of splitting up SAWS and TAWS. I can safely do that as /nin, and not worry about getting smacked by the mob.

With /war (and especially during zerk times), I can't do that. Why, you ask? Because I'll get hit pretty damn hard, and considering my HP with HH pie is only around 1250, I can drop fast if you throw a rushing drub or firespit into the equation.
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While rushing drub I can agree on, fire spit really isn't that much of a problem unless your WHM is too stupid to throw barfira up... in which case the problem is with the WHM again, and not you.

And yes, I know its more beneficial to split TAWS and SAWS. I'm assuming you do that already. With 25s TP time, I'm assuming that includes the time you're tanking, right? since your only argument for using /NIN is survivability. If you don't include the time tanking, you obviously must, since from your description you pull hate all the time. In which case your TP'ing slows down. And you did mention that TA on to another person messes their damage output out. In which case you must consider the loss of damage you deal due to having to tank and keeping shadows up.
 
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Uzor said:
That's what I was refering to. I never mentioned anything about DEX.


Please do mention what I'm wrong about WAR SJ. I said its a perfectly viable sub for THF. So which one is it? that part? or the part when I said that WAR sub requires a slight change of tactics? or what WAR SJ doesn't automatically equall MP sponge? or that /WAR sub have potentially higher damage output then /NIN? Because those are the only things I've mentioned.

As for the bolded part. You obviously do look it rather narrowly considerign your previous argments. And I'm in no way bruised, because I haven't been proven wrong. The only counter arguments you have ever brought up was being an MP sink. Yeah. You make a bad attempt at countering one of my arguments and that suddenly bruises me? Just, wow. That's not even a good argument.
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Just wow. You seriously have to be kidding me.
Again, where did I say YOU said anything about DEX?
I am at a loss for words. Between this and the other argument about /WAR. EVERYONE has agreed it's a viable sub for Christ's sake.
You have got to be some kind of fucking moron. For real dude. I am shit out of the words to describe what in the fuck is wrong with you at this point. Aside from, "Go back to page one, read all the stuff the THFs have written, TRY your best to understand it, and the regardless if you do or not, just shut your fucking piehole." nobody can tell you anything at this point. You have no grasp of logic, or simply reading and understanding what all the THFs have said.

In almost every post a THF has made, we've recognized that WAR sub is viable. I use /WAR as often as I can, but it has to be an optimal situation. As was previously mentioned, NIN sub is the better option the vast majority of the time, and for a variety of reasons. These things have been discussed since early in this thread and you simply missed them or misunderstood them time and time again.

WHAT THE FUCK DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?
 
Sneakypants said:
Just wow. You seriously have to be kidding me.
Again, where did I say YOU said anything about DEX?
I am at a loss for words. Between this and the other argument about /WAR. EVERYONE has agreed it's a viable sub for Christ's sake.
You have got to be some kind of fucking moron. For real dude. I am shit out of the words to describe what in the fuck is wrong with you at this point. Aside from, "Go back to page one, read all the stuff the THFs have written, TRY your best to understand it, and the regardless if you do or not, just shut your fucking piehole." nobody can tell you anything at this point. You have no grasp of logic, or simply reading and understanding what all the THFs have said.

In almost every post a THF has made, we've recognized that WAR sub is viable. I use /WAR as often as I can, but it has to be an optimal situation. As was previously mentioned, NIN sub is the better option the vast majority of the time, and for a variety of reasons. These things have been discussed since early in this thread and you simply missed them or misunderstood them time and time again.

WHAT THE FUCK DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?
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I too is at loss for words. You didn't say /WAR works untill a couple of pages ago. You're still going around saying that it aitomatically becoems a MP sponge.

What is it you don't understand?

You also said several tiems that I'm wrong about /WAR sub. You still didn't tell me what I said is wrong, though. Since I'm obviously so wrong, you should have notrouble pointing out what I'm wrong about. Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? If you do agree with me, then how come you can't point our what I'm wrong about, even though you say I'm wrong? If you're too much of a moron to actually back up your claims, I suggest you respond when you're not high.
 
Let it go Sneaky.Don't waste your time and give yourself a headace. Uzor will never stop. never ever
 
Zethren said:
Let it go Sneaky.Don't waste your time and give yourself a headace. Uzor will never stop. never ever
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Agreed. That was the last time I was up for letting him go back and reread what I've said.

In fact, he's missed the point, the facts, and what peope have said so many times now, I'm not so sure a pipe to his head is the solution any more...Is it possible to make him into more of a vegetable?


Uzor, have fun continuing to be the armchair THF that doesn't know what he's talking about. And remember to put up barfira, all you mages, cuz that means all the melee take zero damage. lol Ciao, bitch.
 
Sneakypants said:
Agreed. That was the last time I was up for letting him go back and reread what I've said.

In fact, he's missed the point, the facts, and what peope have said so many times now, I'm not so sure a pipe to his head is the solution any more...Is it possible to make him into more of a vegetable?


Uzor, have fun continuing to be the armchair THF that doesn't know what he's talking about. And remember to put up barfira, all you mages, cuz that means all the melee take zero damage. lol Ciao, bitch.
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Once again you prove to be a moron. I didn't say no damage. I said your mage is retarded if he don't use barfira. Reduced damage does not equall 0 damage. And yes, I'm well aware what I'm talking about.

I do find it highly ironic though that you keep repeating I'm wrong. But yet, you can't prove me wrong. It should be a simple task if I'm wrong. correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your last post is a pathetic attempt to to and prove me wrong a last time. It seem that oyur philosphy is "if you can't prove someone wrong, the best way is to say they're wrong and then leave". Yeah. Back away with your tail between your legs. That always worked for you before.
 
You're right uzor.
 
/nin will always be a better choice for thf in merit partys, atleast in the "new" zones. Since 50% of your ws's will be giving you hate, the one you sa that is, will force the healers to waste mp on you. (In a perfect world sa -ws, will always be ready to kill the mob so you don't take dmg, but that rarely happens.) Also when a thf ta -ws it forces the one getting ta'd to tank for a longer period of time, thus forcing him to use Ichi, thus spending valuable seconds casting spells, where he instead should be doing dmg.
To be honest I never merit with my thf, if it's not a thfcannon pt (even then I rather come rdm), mostly cuz there's not enough players out there who know's how to play with a thf in pt.
Furthermore, /war is an awesome sj, it really is, however imho it should not be used without having cap merits, and pretty good gear.

Gotta take off the hat for SE since they still are able to start discussions like this.
 
How many times do I have to mention that a potent WHM won't run out of MP just because you pull hate without shadows up?

Geez. Is there really that many bad WHMes out there?
 
I'd rather see a whm have 135 mp extra perhaps for a curagaII instead of wasting it on a CV on a thf with war sub.
In a perfect pt even a maxed out mnk can sub war, aswell as a thf can, tho it's very, very rare.

And to answer your second question Uzor, yes, by god yes, there is.
 
The only place you really need Curaga II on is Caedarva Mire on flies. But with fully merited bar-spells and Shellra V up, you have -35% magic damage taken, as well as a rather high chance to outright resist Cursed Sphere. So you rarely need to use above Curaga. Either way, from their previous posts, I assume they're not talking about imps and flies. In which case the need for Curaga II is completely gone, other then the occasional mage or blue mage mamool ja. But those can be silenced.
 
I love reading the first page or two of a really big thread, then skipping to the end.. it's like two (or more) threads in one!
 
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