Villarel said:
Nasya said:
Villarel, stop ignoring what people post please, it is rude and causes you to make uninformed posts which makes you look like a fool
You ma'am are the rude and crass one. I'll save you the trouble of rereading my post and itterate it here.
Some situations require the Tank to provoke first. On fast moving mob, your ranger/puller will lose all his shadows. When your ranger/puller is coming back with zero shadows is then not better to provoke first. I've seen it happen to many pullers (as a tank, a puller, and as mage.
You, Nasya, however, don't want to accept that this happens. An resort to derogatory and demeaning post.
It does happen, if you are a shitty puller, but if you are careful of how you go about pulling, it won't. Yes, raptors and torama are fast moving, and they attack fast too, but if you pull with a good distance and a fresh set of blinks it is not a problem. Why do I say this?
Because I spent the majority of my time in The Valley of Sorrows and The Labyrinth of Onzozo pulling myself. This is what Phraust and I have said on many occasions, and this is what you seem to be neglecting and not reading. What I say comes from personal experience, yet you disregard it. This is what is rude, and uninformed about your posts.
What did I ask you to do(the word please implies a request)? Simply, not to assume that just because you have had problems with your pullers (or when you pull as ranger) in the past that it is not possible to consistently pull without losing blink even against the Torama and Raptors you are using as examples. Phraust and i both have said that we personally have been able to pull, and have been in pts where rangers have pulled these monsters without a problem.
I am not denying that this can be a problem... What i am saying is that the issue you are describing, that would justify the tank to voke before tasa, is one that is
easily avoided . Yes it can happen, but if it is happening consistently there is a problem with the puller, not with the concept of waiting for a thf to attack the tank when the monsters back is to him. Like outlined previously a good thf and a good tank and a good puller can do the whole set up with no delay... it’s as easy as having TASA activated during the pull and pressing F8 (or a /target <bt> macro) and pressing attack.
Finally:
Rude:
Lacking the graces and refinement of civilized life; uncouth.
Lacking education or knowledge; unlearned.
Ill-mannered; discourteous: rude behavior.
Crass:
So crude and unrefined as to be lacking in discrimination and sensibility.
Neither of these definitions, which by context are the ones you certainly intended when using these words, apply. I have read through your posts in their entirety, taken them into account, and decided to reply because the absolute nature of your opinions when I compare what they claim to my experience, and the experiences listed by others in this thread, are incorrect
in that they leave no room for discrepancies. I was not attacking you as a person, which would indeed be rude. Rather I was suggesting that you should consider the entire content and context of someone’s post before telling them they are wrong, so that you could make an educated reply. Someone who is wise realizes that no matter how vast their experience, others will have valid experiences that might contradict their own.
If Phraust or I or anyone else says that they have personally been able to pull without problems, even in the Valley or LOO, rather then saying "your comments are invalid i know all" which is certainly how you have been coming off in this thread, you could have said something along the lines of "in my experience it was often better to voke first because this is usually a problem in the parties I have had", thus suggesting why it would be valid to voke first, which is your argument, without discrediting what others had said in the past, which indeed is uncouth and insulting.
There is certain information about the others who are posting in this thread that must be taken into consideration when you reply to them. Furthermore, when you looked at those facts, you should have realized that those posters are accounted with many of the same situations you are describing to make your argument. At the start of this thread Phraust described how it is important to know your skill chains and monsters weaknesses, and he used Torama as the example monster. This means he has probably fought them on more then one occasion. Later he said that he was giving numbers from his attacks on procs, which would validate the prior assumption. What does this mean? He has been through Valley of Sorrows and Labrinth of Onzozo already.
Information about me is much easier to take into consideration when replying to me. You and I have run into each other many times recently, and I have my levels posted in my signature. I dare say we even leveled with each other a few times in VoS and LoO when you were playing your BLM. Perhaps you forgot about that though. Either way, what this means about Phraust and myself is that when we say we didn't have problems when pulling x or y mob in the locations you are describing is that we are in fact qualified to say that. Ergo our accounts are valid,
just as yours are.
There are situations when it is best to voke first for sure, but it is necessary to be able to distinguish when that is the case. Discrimination when being a tank or party leader is certainly important, if your members are not fast enough at setting up the SC or the TASA or get owned while pulling of course it is best to voke first. In contrast if the party is organized, the THF and tank are fast to line up, and the Puller is able to pull without losing his shadows, which I will stress again
is possible against any monster, including those you listed as problematic , than a sensible person would realize that they could afford not to voke at the start of the fight, which would make the entire party more effective. Your comments left no room for the second scenario, and that is why you received a negative response to your post from me, as the second had been described multiple times, and you had seemingly ignored it.
Thanks for the personal attack though Vill, I am curious to know when you became so spiteful towards me... send me a pm or something about it, because I honestly do not know what I did to cross you. Unlike the previous post I made to in reply to yours, this one was demeaning, though in a far more subtle and less direct way then your last post towards me was. The first, however, was simply a request and suggestion... perhaps you do not do this but I let those I know and care about, or respect, know when they have made a mistake. I am very willing to accept that "this happens", I never denied that it can, what I refuse to accept is that it will always happen, and that it cannot be corrected, which is what you seemed to suggest.
which is that those are realistic numbers against flies '-'. <3 darters and skimmers. 
)if i offend you but this is my opinion. When high lvl (65?-75), i think tanker should voke 1st no matter what. And there is a time that initial SATA (on tank) is necessary.
