Thf/RNG merits
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I Just left a pt cause the lv 40 thf leader there was missing head,waist and back slots with lv 25 knifes who just so happened to own a PCC that complained about no money when i suggested getting the upgrades fro free from a signet guard andquesting the AF weapon. I needed something to distract myself from going to the flameboard over such a common occurence.
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Khajit said:
That's not even what Sneaky were talking about. You seem to show what sentinent thought is very well by yourself.
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mdkuser said:yea, all in all, tier 2 thf merit arent awsome, exeption is feint, which is totally awsome on hnm ( tried on jailers myself). AC not worth the trouble imo, i made many tests it doest stack with SA+WS or TA+WS or SATA+WS. AUra steal can be fun to steal stuffs, but hell, i ended up to steal lolprotect or lolspikes in dynamis, really not that greati choose ambush and feint maxed.
Also, you know whats funny in this thread? the same people that claim DEX is less good than STR for thf are the same that claimed in another thread that assassin charge stacks with sataWS. On another note, I use to get exp buffer for dynamis with a friend that has the 3 sky abjuration, we deal the same dmg ( me using DH+AF2hat+AF2 gloves+AF2feet).
Also about abjurations, i dont do sky and hnm because its a waste of my time: why would i go there and expect 3 equip that are good for WS only, when a tons of jobs get a tons of gear out of sky. look what blm and thf get in sky, look what nin rng etc get there.
Holy fuck. Wonders never cease.
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(sorrydoublepost)Uzor said:
With thf/war, you need to hold back or you'll die. I get TP (even without haste/songs), much faster than my TA recast timer. Therefore, I need to save TP so I don't SAWS and get owned. Saving TP isn't beneficial to my gear setup considering my main hand is blau.
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Necrosis said:
Yes, I know. Mdkuser main hand blau too. Thing is, if you SATA someone at start (or TA), they'll be the ones tanking. By the time you have TP, when you SA WS, the mob will be close to death unless its a bad party, in which case exp will be slow eithr way. And if your WHM suddenly, magically, run out of MP just because you get hit a few fights per battle, he sucks. In that case the problem isn't your SJ choise, its the WHM.
If you have close to 100% TP at the start of a fight, you could just wait a few hits to SATA WS on to the melee. Or just TA WS, whatever you prefer.
Yes, it does require tactical changes, but the job combination as a whole is very good when played right.
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I don't think you're getting what I'm saying here. On THF, I was usually able to pop off a TAWS on one of our other melees and get close-to-100 or 100 by the time it's dead (unless everyone uses WS at once). By the time I get 100 again, TA won't even be close to being up. If I wait for it to be up and continue getting TP, my damage output would suffer severely. I don't need to worry about that on /nin, I just WS whenever I have TP.Uzor said:
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For THF:
DEX > STR levels 1-75
DEX > STR levels 1-75
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Necrosis said:
I understood what you were trying to say. What I said was that as TFH/WAR, you need to change your strategy. Even though you might holw back on your TA a couple of sec, the overall damage output is higher due to the slightly higher damage output.
Let's say you pop a TA at the start of the fight. Then you melee. When TA is at 20 sec left, you have 100 TP and can pop Sneak Attack + Dancing Edge. At this time, the mob is close to dead, so the damage you take doesn't really matter unless the WHM sucks. Just because you get hit a few times doesn't mean you're automatically an MP sink.
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The overall damage output is slightly higher, but at the cost of a good deal of WHM MP. I'd say it's fine if you have RDM WHM BRD 3x melee setup, but you need to consider the usable MP pool of a single RDM/WHM if you only have one healer. I don't like going /war; I hardly take any damage (besides the occasional firespit) on /nin, and I can spam TP. I'm too lazy to macro out suppa for an attack earring on /war too, so I usually just leave it x:Uzor said:
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As I've said before, I can do a 5 melee 1 WHM party. Haste everyone, and keep everyone alive, and buff them up. Without slowing the party down because of running out of MP. that includes the MNK subbing WAR and the DRK subbing WAR.Necrosis said:
So I'll say it again, unless your WHM just sucks, he won't run out of MP just because you get hit a few times. In which case the problem isn't your sub, its your WHM.
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Uzor said:
This is not optimal...At least not as far as merits parties go. What you are describing is better suited for XP life, and life before the best gear is available.
The tactical changes you are talking about are far from optimal. To touch on what Lionsheart said before in regards to THF tanking, this can be and IS very beneficial to the flow of XP. Even the biggest proponents of /WAR will most often merit as /NIN simply because they can negate damage that they would take, as well as damage that a WAR, a NIN, a PLD or any other DD would take as well.
When you see WAR/NINs party together, the good ones use Provoke when the current tank is in trouble to relieve the current tank of tanking, to allow him to get shadows back up, to minimize mp spent to save his ass, etc.
THF is not really a different concept altogether, but they obviously do not have Provoke with /NIN. If performing optimally, the THF should be able to offer relief to the tank and in the process, provide a better flow of XP, by means of negating a need for mages to rest as much.
Laying nasty hate on one person in a merit party is simply a bad idea for a constant flow of XP, and as Necro mentioned, will force the THF to operate in sub-par conditions.
Saving TP turns a THF into a potential asset to the party and flow of XP, into a complete waste of a slot. The benefits of /WAR are mostly not worth sacrificing /NIN for merits and fluidity. The things that should determine /WAR or /NIN for merits are your PT setup and camp location. Depending on how the party is setup and where you will camp, /WAR could work, otherwise it will make you an MP sink and/or detriment to the party as you will function sub-optimally.
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Neolink said:
And then suddenly, we're not in Kansas any more.
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ironic. So while you think /NIN is the best sub, all of the best ones use /WAR =/
As for "increasing exp flow by making the mage rest less"... wow. your WHMes must seriously suck some fat elephant dicks.
As for "increasing exp flow by making the mage rest less"... wow. your WHMes must seriously suck some fat elephant dicks.
Uzor said:
Also most of the best ones have to eat sushi in north camp because of the lurkers, while thf can just use feint to counter that and keep using meat. Of coz if you have a thf in party most meelees can use meat there, but since for those cannon jobs, you have to sacrifice a ton of haste gear for meat to work which most of the nin/mnk/war would avoid that.
1 small reminder, berzerk will be only up for 3/5 of the time, and more often than not it WILL NOT make Thief's WS significantly stronger.
Unless all 5 of your meelee are top of their game or your whm has some magical ability that I dunno, I dun see how you can make a 5 meelee 1 whm party work at all in north camp. A lot of the TP moves are inevitable like multi-hit WS + firesplit. And with 5 meelee wacking at it it's gonna be very ugly. Or unless you are talking about the south camp fighting tons of puks...
Seriously, I really wanna learn how you do your routine, especially with no dispel, prolly no slow, no para no silence. How you keep all your meelees healed in that situation without resting?
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Uzor said:
Actually the BEST THFs, as previously mentioned, will merit as /NIN almost always, save exclusive camps / PT setups to allow for /WAR to be more effective. Obviously you missed that. Are you another one of those people that doesn't play a THF but knows everything about it?
The part you quoted...
"increasing exp flow by making the mage rest less"
You agree that when the mage has to rest less, that is more effective than resting more, right?
OK then.
Yes my mages are refreshed constantly. Yes they are as MP efficient as possible. If melee start subbing WAR there will be a greater need for MP expenditure, and also as a result, more resting.
Some camps / PT setups will allow for it. But is it going to be optimal in 90% of camps / PT setups? No. Sorry. Come again. There's a reason everyone subs NIN (Edit: In most merit parties)...Actually there's many reasons. I've outlined a few as they pertain to THF. This is not a discussion out WHMs sucking balls, as much as you want to steer it that way.
The discussion about THF merits was relatively agreed upon, save the part about DEX and STR, which is, imo, a case of good versus best when you look at the big picture, end game, and overall effectiveness. Take it or leave it. I don't give a fuck. Create a new thread if you want to talk about WHMs sucking balls in /WAR merit parties in some specific instance to prove your point.
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lionsheart said:
I was wondering this myself.
So, in summation: /war is more powerful than /nin, no one's arguing that, but only if you can safely use WSs whenever you have TP.
If you're a good/great/awesome THF, and you go /war, you will pull hate, and you will get hit eventually, causing the mages to devote more of their MP in curing you. It's a matter of effectiveness here.