/breaklinkshell

[Bladewind]

Butthurt again because I fucking said something about your friend? If you really are that butthurt you can say something longer than 1 sentence. Not a problem if it is completely over your head.

Anyways back to what I was saying. Celvantes has always been a great guy, and honestly I'd stick up for him regardless of the situation. Guy has been through alot and been shit on numerous times...

Back to what Nyosan said, if Are did in fact leave right after BK completed his Ultima set, that is VERY shady. I think there have been flames that have been in correspondence to such. Didn't Rappa call that Dine and Dash? I forget.

You're not worth more of my time than 1 sentance, Arez already showed you why.

 

[Uzor]

As someone else stated earlier, just because you are a good person does not mean you are a good leader. Being in a leadership position means that you can be the nicest, coolest person in the world and still have hostility towards you if you are viewed as not doing your job well. It really is not up for debate as to whether a leader was doing their job correctly or not. If it comes down to the majority of people believing that leadership is not performing the way it should be, they have failed. End of discussion. It is the double edged sword that once again reveals some of the many parallels between Real Life and FFXI.

Just random thoughts that lead to no real conclusion: Many people, in RL and of course in FFXI, have a hard time distinguishing between the business side of things and the personal side of things. Disagreements within the "business" (or LS, which can be viewed as one) *should* be just business, but unfortunately many business disagreements lead to personal ones despite there being no initial personal conflicts. While one person may view things as "nothing personal," the other side receiving the criticism often does not take the same distanced stance. Its a shame it has to be that way, because it has most definitely ruined countless relationships in the real world and likely even more often in FFXI.

fun fact: bosses are usually the most hated people.

 

[Arezael]

Let's review why this isn't an acceptable post:

However, your timing and the way in which you went about it were pretty disappointing. I think you could have accomplished your goals while avoiding much of this discontent.

What timing? Wednesday 25th Feb '09, Celvantes says it's solely his decision on who gets to lot items. The next day we were due to meet as a Limbus shell was Sunday 1st March '09, four days later. This is the day we split.

Rather than waiting until the Ultima set you were holding was complete and simply not showing up in the linkshell on the Sunday it was planned to be used (while leaving a fair portion of the shell in the dark), you could have utilized the BK forum to discuss your intentions after the use of the boss set.

Everything is an outright lie. I'm not holding any chips of any kind in any way whatsoever.

There are no complete pop sets at all. We popped Omega on Wednesday and got 2 chips from him, one of which Orta was already holding. The last Ultima we did was on 15th Feb '09. There have been 2 farming runs since then, one of which was a triple split (2x Temenos 1x Apollyon). That accounts for the 3 chips Qla holds. The only other Ultima chip is in Hach's inventory. The plan for the week past as set by Celvantes was Temenos x2 Wednedsay(25th Feb), Omega Sunday(1st March). That was changed on the day of the 25th, since we had enough to do Omega on Wednesday, typically our lowest attendance day. So we haven't done any Temenos runs, since the Omega fight wasn't split.

Where is this mystery chip set you're claiming exists? We don't back up pop sets, as soon as we have one, we do the boss.

You're a liar, and suggesting of any sort I had motive to steal I point you to the OP where Celvantes himself already states every member was given the right to join us, with their points and therefore order of drops remaining intact. If I had wanted to steal explain that to me please.

I find it somewhat amusing that the best you can come up with is to completely fabricate things about me in order to contribute to the flame.

Provide some proof of something or just shut the fuck up.

 

[Rappa]

It was totally shameless. But I also laughed my ass off and wished I had thought of it.

The lulz are what I was going for. Most people I talked to about it laughed.

 

[mdkuser]

As Celv and a few other people mentioned, the reserve list was used to transition the shell into a point system from what had previous to Celv's leadership a system of the leader just deciding who got what.
It was everyone's best attempt at moving from one system to another without screwing people who had been next in line for a piece of gear.

I know that I haven't played in a while but I can say that Celv was always a nice person and in my experience, a good leader. I think that this is probably something that could have been discussed within the shell and resolved. Instead, it sounds like a faction ( or clique) in BK did not like losing control of the shell after Celv got back and found an excuse to make their own shell to keep that control.

Sorry that this happened Celv, I don't think that you deserved it and I think it was a chickenshit way for them to do this. The fact they couldn't even be bothered to discuss their issues on the BK board first shows that they didn't even want to give you the opportunity to explain. Good luck and I hope you find a better class of players to run with.

Did you read this thread and did you understand how he manipluates the rules to his advantage, and how he abuses the time of 20+ ls members to reward him and his own friends? Also the small clique is actually 2/3 of the LS...

 

[Nyosan~]

As regards the people who were holding chips:

Orta: 3/4 Omega chips
Qla: 3/6 Ultima chips (one of which is her own from her prior ls)
Hach: 1/6 Ultima chips

Whoever has stated that I left with a full set, a near full set or infact anything stolen is an outright liar. These people above will confirm to you what they hold.

Hmm... I guess I got some bad gouge on who had which chips on Sunday.

 

[Nyosan~]

Let's review why this isn't an acceptable post:



What timing? Wednesday 25th Feb '09, Celvantes says it's solely his decision on who gets to lot items. The next day we were due to meet as a Limbus shell was Sunday 1st March '09, four days later. This is the day we split.



Everything is an outright lie. I'm not holding any chips of any kind in any way whatsoever.

There are no complete pop sets at all. We popped Omega on Wednesday and got 2 chips from him, one of which Orta was already holding. The last Ultima we did was on 15th Feb '09. There have been 2 farming runs since then, one of which was a triple split (2x Temenos 1x Apollyon). That accounts for the 3 chips Qla holds. The only other Ultima chip is in Hach's inventory. The plan for the week past as set by Celvantes was Temenos x2 Wednedsay(25th Feb), Omega Sunday(1st March). That was changed on the day of the 25th, since we had enough to do Omega on Wednesday, typically our lowest attendance day. So we haven't done any Temenos runs, since the Omega fight wasn't split.

Where is this mystery chip set you're claiming exists? We don't back up pop sets, as soon as we have one, we do the boss.

You're a liar, and suggesting of any sort I had motive to steal I point you to the OP where Celvantes himself already states every member was given the right to join us, with their points and therefore order of drops remaining intact. If I had wanted to steal explain that to me please.

I find it somewhat amusing that the best you can come up with is to completely fabricate things about me in order to contribute to the flame.

Provide some proof of something or just shut the fuck up.

On Sunday, I'd heard that we'd be doing Ultima. I didn't examine the last few weeks of Temenos runs; as I'm sure you recall, I've been holding the Omega sets for the shell for the last few iterations. The partial set Orta is holding is the first in a couple of months which haven't been in my hands. I'm not sure I've been in a non-boss Temenos run since before the new year.

Nothing in my post was said with the vehemence you've returned to me. I merely expressed my disappointment with the way the split was executed. It seems I was in error with regard to the current status of chip holdings in the shell before the break; this was due to the comments in BK on Sunday (none of which I remember in specific detail, I had no reason at the time to take dictation).

As for the first comment you've quoted above: I suppose I just don't understand the urgency you felt to break away from the shell. A chance for a discussion with the shell as a whole prior to the schism seems pretty reasonable to me. This could have occurred after Sunday's run, in my opinion.

As for the second: Most of it may have been misguided, but as far as keeping a fair portion of the shell in the dark - I can't see how you can argue this one. Many of us had no idea what was happening until well after the typical start time on Sunday.

My apologies for what you perceived as me accusing you of stealing, however, if you look at my post, I never used the term 'steal' at all. I saw it as more of a bargaining chip to be used to entice some of the more reluctant BK members to switch over.

Again, I wish no ill will on either you or the new shell. My suggestion to re-examine the shell rules (if you haven't already) was an earnest suggestion, since apparently it was these rules which were the reason for the split.

Like I said before: Best of luck to the revamped shell. I'm sure you guys will continue rockin' it.

 

[Ewok]

3. We farmed twice as much omega than ultima, this makes no sense. Had I been on the Nashira queue, I'd have left the shell long ago.

Show of hands of LSs that do equal parts Ultima/Omega? From what I've read on here, as well as what I've seen in my own ls, most LS's will typically do at best 3:1 Omega:Ultima.

Now consider that Kohra is in the same salvage ls that celv lead. Now consider that I was told I "handled things wrong" with lold(aka me getting pissed off).
Then consider that I was expected to HELP Kohra to get his salvage gear. Then consider that he had stated that he didn't actually bother reading said flame to find out what happened which would have meant anyone could have seen me quitting woa after that when I had everything I wanted in salvage for thf and they avoided anything I was actually after like the plague(probably coincidental due to them focusing on other pieces which isnt wrong in itself but clearing out the entire ares tier in SILVER SEA before killing the skadi NM even once is a tad excessive even if I do admit skadi hands suck).
Then consider that changing tiers(even after you complete a set) would result in a complete point loss when I hadn't spent any points in the shell history(due to being the only one that actually could use the skadi) making me literally a points Juggernaut. (and to boot I technically got less salvage 35 from woa than the people I would have skipped ahead of so it wasn't like hoping for a shot at a drop could be considered greedy)
And to top it all off anyone that got into the ls so much as 1 day before the tier change would have priority over me putting me 3~5 spots behind the rest of the ls on the good pieces meaning that any future (and alot of the past)attendance was simply a waste of time when it came to benefiting me which I actually had no problems large enough to quit over until they expected me to waste said time/effort on a jackass like Kohra without caring to even read what happened while using the whole "what happened in Vegas stays in Vegas" line to say that no matter what someone does to you outside of ls you're supposed to give them happy Carebear smiles in an event they're in. As a result of this the length of my stay in BK went from "stay forever"(Limbus also my favourite event so staying for the fun of it is a valid option to me) to stay until I get my gear and evaluate if i want to stay or not.

Been biting my tongue for as long as I can on this...

1. Kohra was/is rarely on, so you issues with him was all but moot. I don't remember how old you are, but most of us as adults have to deal with working with people we don't like.

2. The way you left was shitty. Showing up late, due to "needing AP", which is I believe because you spent them all on running with KFC (I could be wrong, I am making my own conclusions here), not showing more and more towards the end. Even if I had everything I needed, I would've stuck it out til I saw Limi's body drop.

3. The points reseting.... yeah, you don't get to have an opinion on it now. Way back when the original system was changed, Celv asked EVERYONE if the new rules seemed fair. He asked if ANYONE had any problems with it. (part of this is directed to MDK as well) Where was your opinion then? Why couldn't you have expressed your opinion later when you decided it was unfair?

MDK, Pchan, and Uzor, for the most part, made it seem like they left because WE were holding them back. I was sorry to see them go (well a little sorry to see Pchan go). Never once did I see any indication that they had problems with the current lotting system, nor did I see any issues with which zones we were going to (could've been in /tells, but nothing was said on /ls, or on the forums). The real problem with Salvage, I guess Celv was expected to read minds, because a lot of the members that left, sure as hell weren't going to tell him why they did.

So from what gotten from this Arezael tried run shell like normal and celv try to return to leader and run it the way he wanted (im sure long day in desert he had 1000 ideas how to change the shell) there was no communication on either side and both you most likly had group of members hat sending you tells bitch and complaing this how the shell should be run. The inevible problem arose and instead of working it out together one said i think about come down the other started thinking about ku against the main leader. Then you say that he was trying screw mdk out the gear, but then you split shell and don't let Khajit who was the highest on tier join? Seem that the one playing faviorites here is arez not celv. Reguardless if khajit was late for 1 run (which i agree should not been able lot that run) he had most points and that gear was his to have. You not allowing him to join screwed him out a piece of gear that he earn from attendance so a friend who was next to lot could have. The "he was going leave after the gear" has no relevence if it a point system. His use of the gear has no relevance either. Don't get me wrong nobody like the guy get his gear and run because that is a dick run, but in same token he didn't just get on top of tier magicly.

Haha, how is it that Hellstorm is making the most sense here, pointing out what appears to be the problem. (no offense hellstorm, lol)

Communication.

Did anyone let Celv know they were planning to leave? There could have been an "emergency meeting" to try and revamp the rules, I'm sure if Celv knew everyone was planning on ditching him, he would've compromised (I know this from experience with him in his Salvage shell) . No? Hmm. And normally, I'd say ask the shell's opinion on most matters, but as far as the not handing him a pearl thing, yeah there's a reason for what they said. Either they were ashamed at how they ditched him, or they were angry at him. Either way they were too lazy/scared to confront him about it (see: Communication). Celv more then likely would've explained his side, then dropped his pearl if everyone wanted him to leave. So go, be successful, but be warned. If they start to not like how you run things, it might not be long before you are staring at an emtpy ls with no warning.

fun fact: bosses are usually the most hated people.

Not supposed to be. In RL, bosses who become your "friend" normally are the easiest to walk all over, making them bad bosses. Some are able to separate the two, but it's rare. See: Favortism

 

[Raesvelg]

I realize I left the shell, the server, and frankly the game some time back, but still...

The reserve system was a legacy from the old leadership, nothing of Celv's creation. If there were still people on the damn thing until now, it's just a sad indication of how rarely certain pieces drop. It wasn't Celv manipulating the rules to gear out his friends. Frankly, I think *I* got one of the first near-complete (only missing lolhead) Homam sets from BK, and while I got along fine with Celv, our only long-term interaction was in BK.

 

[Uzor]

MDK, Pchan, and Uzor, for the most part, made it seem like they left because WE were holding them back. I was sorry to see them go (well a little sorry to see Pchan go). Never once did I see any indication that they had problems with the current lotting system, nor did I see any issues with which zones we were going to (could've been in /tells, but nothing was said on /ls, or on the forums). The real problem with Salvage, I guess Celv was expected to read minds, because a lot of the members that left, sure as hell weren't going to tell him why they did.

Not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand, but the reason was that we (as in me, Mdk and Pchan) started doing 3 Nyzul runs a week, on top of the 4 Salvage runs a week. I stuck with WoA for as long as I could, but doing 6 Salvage a week on top of 3 Nyzul a week ment I eventually ran out of AP, which put me in the position of choosing between my own shell and WoA. Which, at least to me, was a no-brainer. The only way I was really "held back" was in the sense that if I kept running with WoA, I had to stop doing WoA runs, or stop farming Nyzul with Mdk and Pchan.

Once we were done with Nyzul, we started doing Salvage 7-8 times a week instead.

 

[Uzor]

*stop doing KFC runs

 

[Ewok]

Not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand, but the reason was that we (as in me, Mdk and Pchan) started doing 3 Nyzul runs a week, on top of the 4 Salvage runs a week. I stuck with WoA for as long as I could, but doing 6 Salvage a week on top of 3 Nyzul a week ment I eventually ran out of AP, which put me in the position of choosing between my own shell and WoA. Which, at least to me, was a no-brainer. The only way I was really "held back" was in the sense that if I kept running with WoA, I had to stop doing WoA runs, or stop farming Nyzul with Mdk and Pchan.

Once we were done with Nyzul, we started doing Salvage 7-8 times a week instead.

This was more in response to the complaints MDK and Khajit had about our point system and which runs we went on. I believe it was at least implied that it was one, or the primary, reason why you guys left.

 

[jyakotsu]

You're not worth more of my time than 1 sentance, Arez already showed you why.

Maybe instead of making the PC+1 comments you always do why not just not reply. Save me the time of having to usually pass over your rather pointless posts. I never start shit w/ you anymore, you keep trying to pull me into some kind of stupid HAY MY DICKZ LONGERZ THAN YURZ argument. If you honestly don't think I am worth your time please stop responding to my posts Ok?

 

[jyakotsu]

Haha, how is it that Hellstorm is making the most sense here, pointing out what appears to be the problem. (no offense hellstorm, lol)

Communication.

Did anyone let Celv know they were planning to leave? There could have been an "emergency meeting" to try and revamp the rules, I'm sure if Celv knew everyone was planning on ditching him, he would've compromised (I know this from experience with him in his Salvage shell) . No? Hmm. And normally, I'd say ask the shell's opinion on most matters, but as far as the not handing him a pearl thing, yeah there's a reason for what they said. Either they were ashamed at how they ditched him, or they were angry at him. Either way they were too lazy/scared to confront him about it (see: Communication). Celv more then likely would've explained his side, then dropped his pearl if everyone wanted him to leave. So go, be successful, but be warned. If they start to not like how you run things, it might not be long before you are staring at an emtpy ls with no warning.

This

The reserve system was a legacy from the old leadership, nothing of Celv's creation. If there were still people on the damn thing until now, it's just a sad indication of how rarely certain pieces drop. It wasn't Celv manipulating the rules to gear out his friends.

And this

No matter how you all look at it, everyone and I mean EVERYONE that dicked Celv like that was a bloody asshole. Srsly

 

[Keryan]

my 2 cents

I was in the shell for that wednesday when we were told that khajit was to come to the zone "in case" he could lot. I also was in FallofOdin. When the members of FoO were informed of the "special" list well over half quit. At the top of the list was Arthur and Celv. A. body and Odins valhalla. No one was aware of these promises prior to the announcement, which did not come from Doth. So the average player saw new leaders placing themselves at the top no matter the points of others. When members stated in the LS they did not like this, they were not given any choice. "but Doth promised" was all we got. There was no real discusion, it was simply how it would be done. The next run well over half of the ls just failed to come. Doth's promises had nothing to do with the members. We did not agree to it, yet we were expected to get them their odin drop. In return they would not lot any of the other abj. Last check Odin droppped items a lot more often than the tier bosses. I do events for fun, so I stayed. Eventually the shell broke because we could never get more than 22 people to show up.

I never knew of the reserved list in BK. Mind you I joined while Celv was deployed. I never even bothered reading the forums as no one told me the password to get in. So while farming chips we get told about these +1 lot ideas. Only one person in the LS liked it. I don't even do limbus for the +1. I think I have lotted on only 1 material because I had the other half drop to me. MIND YOU when Celv started about the idea it was stated something he wanted to start on wednesday. There was no lsleader meeting or an after run meeting with the LS to talk about this. It was smack in the middle of a triple farming run. So distracting the LS obviously was not a major concern.

Then the run with omega. The run was going very well. We waited for some late people, then went to kill us Omega. During the run Khajit gets on and asks if he can come lot the body. Celv says come to zone. NOTHING about thinking about it. I spoke up and said he is not here and should not get to lot. If I missed a run I would not expect to lot. Others spoke up as well. Then Celv said come to zone and I will let you know if you can lot. <paraphrased> To me it was come and lot by his inital response to khajit. Then to appease the rest he said "in case". Who gives a damn if Khajit throws a fit because he missed his drop. It would have served him a lesson to be on time.

As a leader you can not please everyone. I have been in shells that have had "good old boy" systems. I left them. I did speak to Celv. I went on the shell and told him why I was leaving. I spoke to him in /tell after and listened to his explinations, and I felt the reasons he was giving was bullshit. It was ass covering. Hell he had people gathering for a boss run we did not even have chips for. He had a chance that wednesday to speak up and correct his mistake. He had all the way until sunday to put something on the forums, but he did not. I had decieded to leave the shell wednesday. I only wanted to tell the LS why I was leaving as I hate it when leaders hide the fact someone left. This has nothing to do with Celv as a person, but everything to do with his actions as a leader. Leaders are held to the highest standards. It is important that they follow the rules and ethics of systems we use. The followers take lead from you. So when the leader does not give a shit, the followers then carry the same attitude.

He had something like 11 memebers in the shell. There was no real reason to break the shell. It was a choice he made. Rather than use that group and fix the errors in the system to make a better shell, he broke it and moaned here. I did not feel I had a voice in how things were run. Wednesday made it pretty clear when he insisted even after people said don't have him go to the zone. I like both Celv and Khajit and hold nothing against them. I just could not stay in a shell where the leader would allow someone to zone in for drop when they did not bother to do the fight.

 

[mdkuser]

Show of hands of LSs that do equal parts Ultima/Omega? From what I've read on here, as well as what I've seen in my own ls, most LS's will typically do at best 3:1 Omega:Ultima.

Apparently it is ok for a player loting on nashira, to work 3-4 times more for their item than a Homam player. That's right, they are a minority in the LS ( one third), so they need to work 3x more than anyone else. In the end it doesn't matter since they get nothing anyway...

3. The points reseting.... yeah, you don't get to have an opinion on it now. Way back when the original system was changed, Celv asked EVERYONE if the new rules seemed fair. He asked if ANYONE had any problems with it. (part of this is directed to MDK as well) Where was your opinion then? Why couldn't you have expressed your opinion later when you decided it was unfair?

It is hard to understand fully how a lot system will work in the long run. Anyway the third loting rules we came up with seem relatively fair. I was mainly refering to how the leader has total liberty to choose which zone/NM the shell does. Before I left in summer WoA was doing 1+ month of Zones that celv needed, whille in contrast, Limi still hadn't gotten usukane body. Like khajit said, they completly dried the ares NM before attempting the skadi hands NM, which would have completed him. They also did 95% ares head NM in arrapago versus 5% morrigan head...

I remember when we started also, celvantes asking Isomiau explicitly to not lot anything in the LS, because he completed a piece outside of the LS... Isomiau droped his pearl immediatly, and that was after 2+ month of spamming Gregedo'r boss every fuckign week for his usukane feet. To be honnest their rule where you can only lot in one set is pure bs. Many members have multiple usefull 75 jobs that contribute to the ls, why wouln't they be able to lot multiple sets? Wait the leader only has ares job, PLD, a job completely useless in salvage.

I realize I left the shell, the server, and frankly the game some time back, but still...

The reserve system was a legacy from the old leadership, nothing of Celv's creation. If there were still people on the damn thing until now, it's just a sad indication of how rarely certain pieces drop. It wasn't Celv manipulating the rules to gear out his friends. Frankly, I think *I* got one of the first near-complete (only missing lolhead) Homam sets from BK, and while I got along fine with Celv, our only long-term interaction was in BK.

Old ls is the key. why would the current members have to deal with what happned in another shell. I mean, before he took over leadership, according to celvantes, the shell was in very bad state. They couldnt beat ultima, nor certain normal runs. Which is enough said. They would most likely have disbanded. At this point you can't recruit new members and ask them to not lot anyything for the next year, when LS can't do anything with the current roster.

 

[Ewok]

Apparently it is ok for a player loting on nashira, to work 3-4 times more for their item than a Homam player. That's right, they are a minority in the LS ( one third), so they need to work 3x more than anyone else. In the end it doesn't matter since they get nothing anyway...

It's not that I disagree, hell I've argued this very point in my ls. But this is standard for every limbus ls, from what I am aware of. Overall, Homam is far better for the jobs that can equip it, then Nashira and it's jobs. If it had not been for lvlng BLU, I would not even have access to Sea, let alone be trying for boss drops from Limbus.

It is hard to understand fully how a lot system will work in the long run. Anyway the third loting rules we came up with seem relatively fair. I was mainly refering to how the leader has total liberty to choose which zone/NM the shell does. Before I left in summer WoA was doing 1+ month of Zones that celv needed, whille in contrast, Limi still hadn't gotten usukane body. Like khajit said, they completly dried the ares NM before attempting the skadi hands NM, which would have completed him. They also did 95% ares head NM in arrapago versus 5% morrigan head...

Well, as far as us doing the mobs that dropped Ares for Celv, he was deployed often, so he was trying to get in what he could. It may have been excessive, that I don't remember. As far as Limi's Usukane, I know we only recently worked out the kinks on that mob, and I'm pretty sure even back when you were running with us, we were still attempting that mob, at least once every 2 weeks. Keep in mind on that, the NM is a bitch to get to, and the drop rate is horrible. As for the Morrigan head, once I realized what NM dropped it, I requested it, and we immediately attempted it, either that week, or the following week (I'm not sure who else needed it at the time).

I remember when we started also, celvantes asking Isomiau explicitly to not lot anything in the LS, because he completed a piece outside of the LS... Isomiau droped his pearl immediatly, and that was after 2+ month of spamming Gregedo'r boss every fuckign week for his usukane feet. To be honnest their rule where you can only lot in one set is pure bs. Many members have multiple usefull 75 jobs that contribute to the ls, why wouln't they be able to lot multiple sets? Wait the leader only has ares job, PLD, a job completely useless in salvage.

As to what happened with Iso, I concede to that. It was a serious lapse in judgement. For being on tiers, if I remember at that time, didn't highest priority go to person with the most attendance, and no points depleted when it dropped? I honestly can't remember, but if this was the case, then there would've been a select number of people able to lot on everything dropped in more then one of the 5 sets, leaving the rest to try and play catch-up. Again, I am uncertain of the original rules, but I know Celv and Greg had a valid reason for restricting people to tiers.

 

[Hach]

Ok, i guess i should have a voice in this flameboard too.

Firstly, kudos to those people who HATES the system and YET manage to stay for like over one years. Your patience and abilities to hold your grudge is really impossible to gauge. If you do not like the system, then DON'T join it right from the start. It is not as if we are taking a gun and telling you:" hey join our shell or we will bust a hole in your head." If you join the shell with other ulterior motives, then I do not see the right to complain since you wish to be confined within this system.

Secondly, regarding FoO, I hate that reserved list system. Since i was also one of the pioneer members of that shell, I do not see the reason why other people have the right to get something reserved before me when we both enter the same time. Doth is not some god who promises we must adhere. However, I continued to stay and to be confined in the system because 1) I want ampoules to get certain item and 2) There is not another einherjar shell I can run with that is suitable to my time. Hence, i just move with the system and hope that the reserved list get clear before i lose my fire.

Thirdly, for those who arguing the that the reserved list is stupid and such beside the above criticism i mentioned, I should let you know that basically the reserved list was created to prevent the very SAME PROBLEM that you are complaining about, I mean this

I have gotten one homam piece in 14 month. ONE. This is worse than salvage... some people have gotten nothing.

and this

I have obtained from my time in BK the Nashira crackows as a result of my attendance. (15 months of runs twice weekly, I've missed 5 runs total).

Let me put it into perspective for everyone to see.

When I first enter BK, it was when Quiren(sp) just left hence I was a newbie and i saw the whole transition. At that time, I was like the only new comer, the rest of the 14+ people have been in the shell at least more than 1 week (No idea when I joined). Let us imagined a BK limbus without reserved, at that time all the old members which had run with the shell for like 15 months now is going to be counterlotting with me(newbie) since at that time i got a complete attendance. Isnt this point what you are arguing? That you stay for so long in the shell and end up getting nothing? So if the reserved list was not implemented, they will be facing the EXACT SAME PROBLEM that this

I have gotten one homam piece in 14 month. ONE. This is worse than salvage... some people have gotten nothing.

and this

I have obtained from my time in BK the Nashira crackows as a result of my attendance. (15 months of runs twice weekly, I've missed 5 runs total).

is talking about. Well maybe not totally the same since at that time the points will be similar and we will have equal chance to lot the gears. But think about it, at that point of time, do you think the the LS should favour the loyal members or someone who just join and not sure if he might continue to stay? Will a loyal member who attend for one year wants to risk a chance of being unable to get a homam piece due to a newbie counterlotting?

I agree with the system hence i accepted the reserved list. Seriously, I am not going to blame you people for being ignorance but those who are the oldbie in the shell is able to see thing in a clearer light. For people who just join, they can only envision the time since they join till present. However, to the oldbie, they are seeing the time span from since the shell started till now. It is a totally two different perspective. Of course, they might took other solution such as 1)Give the oldbie points 2) start a new shell. For 1), the shell has NEVER ever take attendance before and how are they going to start assigning points? Are they going to anyone presume their points given? If they took 2) then i bet lot of members will leave the shell and then will they be able to continue to run limbus? Of course, I do admit that not all the oldbie agree with the system hence they left.

I admit, the reserved list might be stupid but the fundamental underlying belief of the reserved list is precisely to avoid what this

I have gotten one homam piece in 14 month. ONE. This is worse than salvage... some people have gotten nothing.

and this

I have obtained from my time in BK the Nashira crackows as a result of my attendance. (15 months of runs twice weekly, I've missed 5 runs total).

are complaining about, to reward people who stay with the shell for long time. Basically you are arguing against the reserved list which was supposed to carried out what you upheld to be correct(although the person it reward is not you). Why then this issue should be brought into this conversation really puzzled me.

Regarding the Ultima, Arezael please accept my sincere apologies. I, like many other members, have the impression that you have a Ultima shell pop. You can label us as liers and accusers but at least on sunday 1) the lsmes say we are doing Ultima 2) we were gearing up for ultima. Beside this two points, Arezael never ever mentioned who hold what chips. Unlike celvantes who will update who is holding what chips, Arezael never did it. You can't expect everyone to know who is holding what chips hence at that point of time, the /lsmes most probably will not be lieing. I guess in your new LS, updating who is holding chips is a good idea.

Anyway putting the lie about ultima chip aside, personally, I don't like the way the issue is drop on us. It came to sudden and no one was prepared. As you say,

My objective was simply to remove you from this false position of authority.

I can presumed that you wanted the shell to maintain? However, 1) You only sent tell to limited amount of people to join over your shell 2) instead of removing celvantes from false position of authority, you seem to be naming your kingdom and bringing relevant people along. If you really want to remove celvantes from position of authority, you could have say it in ls or put in BK forum. I HAVE TOTALLY NO IDEA WHAT WAS HAPPENING ON THAT DAY.On that day, I waited and only see a few people online. If I want to remove someone from the false authority of power, I will at least first 1) let the whole LS know about it 2) Threaten the guy who is in authority and of course not in TELL. Your approach may be one of the ways to show your authority but it is definitely not the best way. You left 12 people in the shell WAITING. You could even do a thing as simple as putting in lsmes which will not take more than 5 minute but apparently you refused to do it. Who knows, maybe you assumed that the remaining 12 people are loyal fans of Celvantes that kiss his ass and will not move. Well, if this was your basic assumption, then i guess i can accept your explanation. However, in your argument, you apparently wanted the whole shell to remain the same except remove celvantes from authority which seem a bit contradicting.

Put yourself in our shoes, if suddenly without you knowing, you realise half of the shell is gone. At least give us a chance to take sides before the curtains are drawn down =.=.

Anyway, to put force to Nyosan point, do remember to chance the ls rules in the new ls. If LS rule was the problem, I do not see how changing the authority will solve the problem. Beside the LS rule, remember to change the run time for wednesday run to 5 45pm est. I remember that time you told me I was late for 10 mins ++ when I was on and it was close to 6pm. It will only took me like 2 mins to go to port jeuno from windy wood and apparently you dont wish to wait because i was late for 10mins ++. After that, i went to BK forum and highlight the run time and apparently I have no idea if you realise 6 pm was the actual time. You never acknowledge you are wrong or not. Apparently the next wednesday, the run time was still 545pm est. At that time, I was, I admit, quite unhappy because this was a sign of abusing your authority. However, at that time, Celvantes did pass you the leadership hence I did not bother to try log on if I wake up later than 545 pm est but continue to stay in my dreamland.

In conclusion, Arezael is a bit too quiet for a leader and do too little stuffs openly that lead me to interpret things. Many things can be handle better, the reserved list should not have an issue with this flame at all. All the best to your new shell. ^^

 

[exodusamphi]

Holy "Guinness Book of Longest Responses in a Thread" Record Batman!

 

[Veralynn]

I don't have much to say other than I still feel like I should come help all the members of the old shell from time to time because of all the help those members gave to me to obtain my Homam.

I have not been contacted directly by Arezael to join, but if there is an offer, I will gladly accept a pearl. As you all know, I don't want Nashira gear ever so I'd just be coming along to help out.

As to BK breaking up, it completely amazed me that the run after our triple-win which I thought was a high-point, the whole shell goes to hell. I feel bad for Celv who really did get the shell rolling in the right direction yet maintained promises by leaders before him. You did a good job and I am glad you kept BK alive. I kind of see good and bad points on both sides of the arguement and it is too bad its degraded into actual flames at this point.

Here's to BK... *cheers*

-Vera